2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!
Grand Master
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| 04/04/2007 9:11 PM |
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Everyone has opinions on the best type and brand and model-Not looking to start another one of "those" debates here. For me it is the O/U. I set it up with customized stock from Wenig that fits and where I look the shot goes-pretty much end of story. Now Having developed what seems like permanent "tennis elbow" from all the carrying of the almost 9lb sporting clay Browning Citori started searching for some relief. Was delighted to see that Browning has developed some lighter models for hunters as we carry them a lot more then shoot them. 1st was looking at some new 12ga models - but then found that they have made 16Ga models with these same techniques built on a 20ga size frame - WOW. Going from 9lbs to 6 or under seems to make a huge difference at least in the store! Wow. And I know the 16Ga is a great Pheasant load-which is my primary species. These guns are not even in the Browning Catalog but there is a store chain that carries them. Worth a look if you are in the market for an upland tool. Hmmm So the new 12ga is just about 7lbs. The 16ga is 6lbs but feels so much less then the 12ga ..Hmmm I am wondering if that 12 is really 7lbs. The nice thing about the 12 is my custom stock would bolt right on...the 16ga will require another round of 'stocking' but it is so sweet! Hmmm So I walked into this store thinking if I happened to find the 12ga I would get it and never expected to see the 16ga. Then after handling both back and forth the decision is tough! Hmmm Got all kinds of 12ga chokes and that gauge is "overbored'...Hmmm  That 16 is SOOO light  Hmmm And this whole exercise is about the weight  |
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camelcluch
Parker, Co
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| 04/05/2007 4:10 AM |
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| 9lbs! That is way to heavy. I agree and it O/U for me too, but not at 9lbs. My 12 wieghs in around 6.5 lbs and is sweet shooter. Good luck with 16, should be fun. |
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CPR Black Forest's Zuberant Zoie |
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HuntingMc
Kentucky
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| 04/05/2007 6:18 AM |
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| Get BOTH!!!! You might need the 12 if it is windy or any other BS excuse you need to justify. You can never have enough shotguns. After all how can we pass all this down to the next generation if you don't have the guns for all the neices, nephews, god children etc???? |
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LuckyNash
Brigham, Utah
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| 04/05/2007 9:13 AM |
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2BD, have you considered the Browning Cynergy Feather Composite? It weighs in at 6.6Lbs in the 12 GA. I find it difficult to find 16 GA shells, and in the size of load I want.. 16s are a great all around size but I actually find the 12 to be the most versitile from the variations of shot and load.
Just a thought. |
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Black Forest HP
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| 04/05/2007 10:07 AM |
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2BD
We need to talk about custom fitted stocks in MO. I am getting fitted in few months so I have a few questions for you, as I have seen how well you shoot, now I know it has to be the stock!! |
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Shawn Hoover
BFK of the High Plains
Booker, TX
www.blackforesthighplains.com |
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Jakebrake
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| 04/05/2007 2:41 PM |
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| OU's are for the unwashed masses. Real gentlemen shoot side by side's 8-) |
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2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!
Grand Master
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| 04/05/2007 9:05 PM |
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I talked to Wenig the place I get the stocks- They confirmed to me that the Citori 16ga is on te 20ga frame and the 20ga stocks they list in their literature fit. So that is real good news.
Shawn- The place in Mo that makes the stocks can fit you too. You will be less then an hour away from them. "Wenig" in Lincoln Mo. What gun are you going to put the stock on- I have their literature and can see if they make a replacement in their "New American Style" Stock. If they make it for your gun already you can fit your self actually. For only $85 !
Nash- The cynergy is very nice but much of the effort in that gun is in the stock-which I would remove anyway-So they are not for me. But I probably should look at them again. In 16 ga 1 1/8 oz is the most that should be used. 1oz is good. Some folks want to use 1 1/4 oz and all that does is string out the pattern. Might help if ya have a habit of leading too much-but I never met anyone who has that problem ;) What load are you wanting for the 16? The Rem express seems readily available for 16ga and it is 1 1/8 oz. Rem Express is all I use on wild pheasants in 12ga.
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2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!
Grand Master
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| 04/05/2007 9:06 PM |
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| Jake- If I had one of those funky hats and those pants that pucker up and tuck into yer socks I would definately get that sxs ! |
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killerloop
MinneSNOWta
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| 04/05/2007 11:03 PM |
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| 2black,
I know you stated o/u but have you ever looked at the Benelli Ultra light??? Neighbor is a rep, I can get specs, but thats the lightest gun I think I've ever shot.. |
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Jakebrake
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| 04/06/2007 9:09 AM |
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| I would give Beretta hard look if you want a light O/U. Theyre the Kings Of light weight O/U's |
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Larry Moderator
Independence, KS
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| 04/06/2007 1:06 PM |
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2BD
Check out that featherlight Cynergy by Browning. It's sweet. I WANT one, but I'm doing some stock work on my tried and true Citori (boat anchor). A little cast and drop work on the stock for better sight alignment, a long neck issue. By the way I have 16" pull length on the stock. That adds more weight to the 9 lbs boat anchor.
Shawn,
There is a quality longtime stock maker in Augusta, KS, outside Wichita. Jim Greenwood, Greenword Stocks. I work european shoots with him. Nice guy. |
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Larry, the pointing lab enthusiast
GMPR HRCH Raider's Jumpin Jack Flash MH Master National Hall of Fame
4xGMPR HRCH Cypress Creek Harleys MS Mac MH Master National Hunter
MPR HR HPK Good Golly Miss Molly SH 3xNBDCA Ch.
APR Jack's Bin Der Dun Dat JH |
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2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!
Grand Master
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| 04/06/2007 7:36 PM |
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Again-My big heavy Browning Sporting Clays is great for the games but all that weight that is helpful in competition is troubling to carry. With the sizable investment already made in chokes for the 12ga invector + system I really had it in my mind that ONLY a browning would be acceptable in 12ga. I know the Beretta's are always lighter guns and actually looked at them many years ago when i decided to go the browning route. The Berettas had the reputation to kick the snot out of ya- this is for 2 reasons. 1-they are lighter 2- with the low profile the stock has an even larger 'ramp' to make them fit which drives a steeped 'wedge' into your face. So for my clays gun i went with Browning- ameriacn label-i liked that and the weight was good for the games and it fit me better- well eventually learned about making a shotgun really fit and restocked. I ramble on to explain the great pain that just seeing and touching the Beretta "ultralight" has now caused ! Just got back from cabelas, after waiting 45min just to get waited on i literally said "holy S#$%@t" when the gun was 1st handed to me. Amazingly light 12ga O/U. It is disapointing that it is not a backbored barrel gun and uses Berettas' older choke system and that I would be getting into yet another choke system. It is disapointing that it is not an american gun. But now it must be added to my list for consideration since Wenig does make the semi inletted new american stock and a ladies version for it! After Easter i will check and see what the local gun shops can do for me on the 2 ultralight versions that Beretta makes. Hmmm Having that 16Ga Browning would be sexy....Hmmm that 12 ga Beretta is basically the same weight! HMMM. Jake - thanks for the advice- And now you can go to H*#%$ for it ! HA! This is not gettin easier.
Larry - You will never get a Cynergy to fit you without ditching the stock. You said you are doing stcok work right now- Are you having it bent to fit better by Jim? |
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Upland Scout
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| 04/07/2007 3:38 PM |
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Beretta, makes a feather weight 12 guage that is 5.75lbs.. Light gun for sure about, here is the link
http://www.berettausa.com/product/product_field_guns_main.htm |
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2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!
Grand Master
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| 04/07/2007 8:31 PM |
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| Thats the one I did look at. |
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Larry Moderator
Independence, KS
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| 04/09/2007 6:47 AM |
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2BD,
Yes, Jim Greenwood is bending the stock for a fit issue. He's had it 3 weeks so I don't expect to hear from him for a couple of months. |
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Larry, the pointing lab enthusiast
GMPR HRCH Raider's Jumpin Jack Flash MH Master National Hall of Fame
4xGMPR HRCH Cypress Creek Harleys MS Mac MH Master National Hunter
MPR HR HPK Good Golly Miss Molly SH 3xNBDCA Ch.
APR Jack's Bin Der Dun Dat JH |
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2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!
Grand Master
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| 05/11/2007 7:13 AM |
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Update- Picked up that 16Ga Browning- It is so sweet and only 6lbs. Immediately got some nice ported choke tubes and ordered the Wenig stock. It just came in yesterday-So now I nee to get set up to work this thing over. Will get some pics soon. 16Ga on a 20Ga frame is Sooo cool.!  |
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Larry Moderator
Independence, KS
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| 05/11/2007 7:56 AM |
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| 2BD,
Sounds great. I'm impressed you found 16 ga ported choke tubes. Are you bring this to Minnesota to gun?? |
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Larry, the pointing lab enthusiast
GMPR HRCH Raider's Jumpin Jack Flash MH Master National Hall of Fame
4xGMPR HRCH Cypress Creek Harleys MS Mac MH Master National Hunter
MPR HR HPK Good Golly Miss Molly SH 3xNBDCA Ch.
APR Jack's Bin Der Dun Dat JH |
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Liv2Hnt
Overland Park, KS
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| 05/11/2007 8:17 AM |
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All else being equal, lighter guns will recoil more. I shoot 3000 or so registered sporting clays on an annual basis. I am a huge benelli fan, but the recoil can get to you. This is not near the issue when hunting. I did add a mercury recoil reducer to my M190 duck gun since I dont generally have to carry it except on a sling. This makes a huge difference in an ultralight synthetic stock gun. Not for upland though. 2bd, if the recoil ever becomes an issue, which it shouldnt in a 6 lb field gun, take a look at the dead mule recoil reducer. I added one to my sporting clays gun since I didnt want to add weight. They are about 50 bucks from brownells and they go in the bolt hole.
Do you know what wenig charges for a stock fit? I know you mentioned his replacement stocks are about $85. Im assuming that doesn't include the fore arm.
My sporting gun fits good, but I shot one of the new American stocks he built and I really liked it. |
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Proud Owner of:
MPR HR McNally's Right Stuff Ridley |
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2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!
Grand Master
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| 05/11/2007 10:58 AM |
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| The stock and forearm was $145 shipped- Now I need to fit it to the gun and then fit it to me. There is a 4 month wait to have them fit it-I could not wait that long. Ive' got/used the dead mule, and also a mercury based one too- have at times played with them all when i was shooting clays. Took them out when i started to carry my clays gun on hunts. Going to a stock with a parallel comb makes a tremendous difference in the recoil feeling - much more effective then the reducers-at least it did for me. The issue is not the shoulder-the issue is the slap in the face-leads to lifting the head and flinching-again-at least for me. Getting that comb down to being low enough and offset and parallel completely eliminated the slap and allows a mount without moving the head down to the stock. Now I simply move the stock to the face and let it find the shoulder once the shot is made-head does not go down to "aim" and eyes stay on bird the whole time (In Theory ;) ). |
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2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!
Grand Master
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| 05/11/2007 11:08 AM |
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Larry- I would love to go up to Minn- But we are very close to whelping- Will have a house of pups in 3 weeks. If all is going real smooth and if Stu needs help I may be able to go...but hard to commit right now and I know that it is hard to plan an event with help that "maybe" there. Now if I was going, that would be a big motivator to get this stock roughed in and fast! The only 16Ga ported tubes I found were some extra-extended Brileys. I intend to call Comp-N_Choke to bug them about making some if these do not pattern as well as I would like.
Liv2Hnt- I believe it is around $400 to $500 to have them fit the gun and you-not real sure-I do not have my literature with me-can look it up for you at home. What exact model/brand of gun are you thinking of doing this to? |
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