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Subject: Sloppy sit

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stansnyder

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06/07/2007 11:34 AM	Alert
My 7-1/2 month old pup is just starting through force fetch. He has always tended to sit over on a back leg except when he's focused on something, marks for example, then his sit is perfect. Now when we're working on obedience, heeling and sitting, prior to holding the dowel during each training session, his sit is very sloppy. He usually rolls his bottom over away from me so I can't tap him with a foot on my side to get him to sit up straight. If I keep some tension on the leash from above it helps but this isn't always easy. Any suggestions?

keskam
Pierce, Colorado

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06/07/2007 3:20 PM	Alert
Is he collar conditioned? I cured it with Jake when we were doing force to pile!! If he came back and sit bad I would say heel walk 3 steps and say sit(NICK WITH THE COLLAR)sit!! It got his attention that we were training and not ^&^% around!! Kevin (This is only done if he has had proper training in OB!!!)

HR Rocky Mountain Rosco JH APR HR Lady Satin of Black Forest JH SHR Satin's Jumpin Jedi JH SHR Chelsea Snow Angel JH APR HR KB's Snakey Jake of Poudre River JH SHR KB's It's Showtime of Bearpoint (Star) SHR KB's Loaded To Go Allie KB's Black Diamond Tessa

stansnyder

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06/07/2007 3:42 PM	Alert
Thank you for your response. Due to his young age I have not collar conditioned him yet. He has been wearing the collar and I have trained him to respond to the praise tone as a come in whistle which has served me well with my other 2 dogs. I have not yet used the collar to shock him yet. He has done very well in obedience training but I'm going slower and softer with him because I feel I'll maintain his enthusiasm and drive better that way, plus he has not really yet needed much correction. Perhaps now I have reason to do so.

keskam
Pierce, Colorado

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06/07/2007 6:13 PM	Alert
I have also heard that you can put your foot in between there legs and step on the foot that is in the middle because of sitting on there hip never used it though!!

HR Rocky Mountain Rosco JH APR HR Lady Satin of Black Forest JH SHR Satin's Jumpin Jedi JH SHR Chelsea Snow Angel JH APR HR KB's Snakey Jake of Poudre River JH SHR KB's It's Showtime of Bearpoint (Star) SHR KB's Loaded To Go Allie KB's Black Diamond Tessa

Jere

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06/07/2007 7:38 PM	Alert
Here's my take on this. Do FF and FF only until you're done with FF. Then work on straightening out the sit. I started on this at very beginning; at 3 mo old when I got the pup that had the issue. Every time he sat catawampus I'd physically straighten him and praise the correct posture. It did crop up a bit later - sometime remote sits were sloppy as you describe and not aligned squarely facing me. I'd call "come" and just about immediately as the dog got fully up and started towards me I'd "hit" him with "sit." This usually squared him up and got the rear legs under him. Then, immediately, "Good dog." Of course, he had learned to associate "Good dog" with "good" things long before. Consistency, high standards and persistence. Jere

Jay
Topeka, KS Go GORILLAS!!

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06/08/2007 6:19 AM	Alert
Hold on, he's doing this before FF even begins? I'd tighten it up. Get your heeling stick or whiffle ball bat, and choke collar (or pinch...whatever) to get your sits down fast and with no thought. I'll bet that you've let off of your obedience standard since all of the FF pressure, and he's taking you for a ride, or maybe bugging. I'd do this completely seperate from FF, but make sure to give some good boys to keep the spirit up. Solve this without an e-collar before you try to use one. I'm finding that obedience is EVERYTHING, and most of us don't even know what good obedience looks like. It's more than just sitting, heeling, and sitting on command, I can tell you that. You want the dog to always look at you, being responsive to your every motion. If he's not, then do something to get his attention back again. Change direction, go backwards, stop, give a command.....Get him to pay attention to you. I've always heard the pros say that they want their OB perfect before FF, probably because of issues like this. I honestly don't know if it is better to just keep going on with FF and fix the obedience later, fix the obedience now and do FF later, or do both at the same time. Someone else would have to tell you that. Another suggestion. I stayed away from retrieving while FF so that the leasons learned in the yard were to followed in the field until I had the tools needed to keep order. Retrieving really helps to aleviate the stresses of training, but so does upland work. Go out to the field and let the dog have fun. Don't give any commands, but let the dog chase some birds around and run off some stress while not interferring with the lessons being learned at home. Jere, your dogs sit?! Just havin' a little fun.... Jay

There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness. GMPR APR HR Tornado Allie of Blk Forest

KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL

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06/08/2007 8:14 AM	Alert
Before FF, my pup's OB will be pretty solid (which is a whole other topic), but during FF I continue to work on OB. A force fetch session lasts a maximum of five minutes which means there is a lot time left in the day. In fact when first starting FF, I do a very brief OB review just before each session (as kind of a warm-up). It is time to ask this pup to be more responsible, and fixing a crooked sit is not that big of a deal. Work on it "here and there" during the course of normal daily activities. Ask yourself this question....If his sit is not precise, why would his effort during FF be any better?

Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II) ---------------------------------- "Excellence is Expected"

Jere

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06/08/2007 2:24 PM	Alert
Posted By Jay on 06/08/2007 6:19 AM ...Jere, your dogs sit?! Just havin' a little fun.... Jay Yes, Jay. they sit. They sit remote (at least the black one does, the brown one is a bit recalcitrant. He's nearly eleven and I suspect he's getting a bit stiff as I am). They take simple casts too. They also retrieve the birds I shoot over their points and deliver them with some aplomb (though I did my best to correct that ) and we've lost but one bird I know of in the past three winters (maybe longer than that. We're all having fun - IT'S FRIDAY. Right? We can go beat and shock dogs this weekend! Whooo Whoo. Jere

KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL

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06/08/2007 4:12 PM	Alert
We're all having fun - IT'S FRIDAY. Right? We can go beat and shock dogs this weekend! Whooo Whoo. You wait until the weekend? Consistency is the key to effective dog training. Just havin' a little fun....

Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II) ---------------------------------- "Excellence is Expected"

KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL

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06/08/2007 10:31 PM	Alert
Stansnyder, getting back to your pup's sloppy sit, when teaching OB there is a tendency to treat it differently than let's say retrieving. In retrieving, we actively seek the pup's attention. Waving a bumper and attracting him to our excitement, the pup is more amped. He's having fun (and so are we). However, when teaching OB it is not as easy to maintain a high degee of enthusiasm. You have to focus on being upbeat and animated (when it looks more like work) to keep a pup "in the game". An alert pup will sit up straight because of your obvious choice to be just as excited about OB as retrieving. If you project a "ho-hum we gotta' do this now" attitude when doing OB, the pup will quickly pick up on this and loose the edge. A learning mode pup that sees you as an dynamic teacher (all the time) will be excited about learning (all the time) which makes it easier to demand precision. Don't make corrections and enforcement the main components of OB instruction. Think of ways to make OB exciting, and turn it into normal 24/7 behavior.

Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II) ---------------------------------- "Excellence is Expected"

Jere

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06/11/2007 10:21 AM	Alert
Posted By KwickLabs on 06/08/2007 4:12 PM We're all having fun - IT'S FRIDAY. Right? We can go beat and shock dogs this weekend! Whooo Whoo. You wait until the weekend? Consistency is the key to effective dog training. Just havin' a little fun.... Darn!! When out to train this past weekend.. Couldn't find my whiffle bat. I vaguely remember seeing it at home (I'm not home from winter yet) in the shed or someplace a few years ago but, really, have no idea where it is. The heeling stick tipped over from where it was standing in the storage trailer winter before last and has been "lost" behind one of the dog crates full of decoys and waders etc for a couple of years. The batteries on the EC were dead, corroded connections gone .... Well I just had to maintain my consistency and do it the old way. Pricked ears and high tails to you all. Jere

Jay
Topeka, KS Go GORILLAS!!

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06/12/2007 7:06 AM	Alert
I really wasn't looking forward to Friday last week. We ended up taking a "fast" trip up to Iowa for a wedding. Did I say shock? No! Did I say beat? No! My OB is very low pressure. I don't beat or shock the crap out of mine to get their attention, but play "games" to keep their eye on me. Like I mentioned, walk backwards, make sharp turns, etc. A little TAP with a stick or a TUG from a choke chain doesn't hurt the dog, it just tells it to pay attention. It's like your wife throwing a pillow at you to make you listen to her. It doesn't hurt, but makes you look. Jere, I didn't know that you knew what day it was, being retired and everything. You must have one of those fancy watches. Jay

There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness. GMPR APR HR Tornado Allie of Blk Forest

Jere

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06/12/2007 12:57 PM	Alert
Posted By Jay on 06/12/2007 7:06 AM ...Jere, I didn't know that you knew what day it was, being retired and everything. You must have one of those fancy watches. Jay I keep track of day of week for you, Jay. I have to remind you when you seem to be forgetting. Three more days today! My watch keeps track of H/M/S and day of month. The S is nearly always wrong, the M is only close, the dom is usually off by one or more because I forget to change it when short months occur. I don't know that I'm all that "retired." I seem to work (at various endeavors) now more than I ever did on a regular basis. When folks ask me what I do I say "I'm fully retarded and gone to the dogs." I didn't say you said those things. But it's good you made it clear, I guess. Jere

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