Doc_E
N.E. WA state
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| 05/22/2007 8:44 AM |
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Posted By Julie on 05/20/2007 9:18 AM
There will be a complete update and info on our website (www.gunclub-labs.com) after Monday.
Julie
That's pretty non-commital, Julie. The year 2011 is "after Monday". You've been around a Norsky too long --- that's the way Norskys think.
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Doc E and Cujo Casey boy. |
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gsc
Wasilla, Alaska
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| 05/23/2007 2:13 PM |
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My calender must be broke, it says it is after Monday, but it obviously isn't!   |
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duckheads
Laporte, Indiana
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| 05/23/2007 2:29 PM |
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| at this point i think it is out of julie's hands and she has to go by what the publisher tells her. be patient grasshopper! |
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gsc
Wasilla, Alaska
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| 05/23/2007 3:16 PM |
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| We all assume so, but Julie has to know we are supporting her efforts! My 15 week old little girl caught scent 15' from a couple of mallards during our lunch walk and locked up on point! It is amazing. |
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hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island
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| 05/23/2007 3:25 PM |
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Good to know my dog isn't the only one who points ducks!
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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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gsc
Wasilla, Alaska
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| 05/23/2007 4:24 PM |
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| I'm thinking it will make the duck blind really interesting? |
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Jere
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| 05/23/2007 4:54 PM |
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I'll stick my neck out and suggest one may want to consider whether s/he wants the dog to be pointing ducks or not. If you're going to jump shoot ducks, dog pointing them may be a very good idea. If not, it may not matter, much.
Jere
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hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island
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| 05/23/2007 5:09 PM |
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| Just a young dog with a nose full of fresh bird scent... |
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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!
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| 05/23/2007 5:44 PM |
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| From my limited experience jump shootin them, a dog that will understand the game and heel while sneaking in a cat like manner and you whispering heel will get the job done. Once the guns go off they are looking for a retrieve and pointing is not on the agenda. Also-Extended screw in choke tubes are very handy to clean out the mud in your barrel when you fall and almost break youir neck! -Ahh but thats a different story! |
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gsc
Wasilla, Alaska
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| 05/23/2007 9:49 PM |
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 Okay, what do you think they are doing when they freeze and look up when ducks are winging in?
Could be, "look up there, there they are!!! Don't Miss!!!" |
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Jere
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| 05/24/2007 12:04 AM |
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| It is not a point. It is part of the search behavior, not the capture behavior - about as simple as I can make it.
jere |
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keskam
Pierce, Colorado
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| 05/24/2007 5:24 AM |
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That is how Jake flunked the Hunt test He found the mother load ,a crate of live ducks by the gunners and went on point  went around the gunner station again and went on point again. Then blew me off on casting (we dont want no dead duck!! We have 10 live ones right here DAD ) |
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Jay
Topeka, KS Go GORILLAS!!
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| 05/24/2007 6:16 AM |
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Jere, do you duck hunt? Are you ever happy? If a young dog doesn't handle birds perfectly you are complaining that it isn't a PL, but if the same dog points live ducks then it's not a retriever...... I just find this very comical.
I don't duck hunt as much as I would like, but if I was to ever get a point while doing it, I believe that I'd take it with a big smile and an easy shot. 
Jay
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There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness.
GMPR APR HR Tornado Allie of Blk Forest |
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Julie
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| 05/24/2007 6:42 AM |
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GSC the book will be out before your dog turns 6 months, or I am moving to Tahiti and exclusively modeling. I was waiting for word from the printer telling me what date I could put, but I am still waiting... even so, it can't take that long since it is actually in the presses now..
We had the duck deliverer for last weekend's field trail, unloading ducks from one set of crates to another and one got away. I was doing the swim by fairly close so he asked if I had a dog that could pick up a duck for him. I reached for one and told him to go get the bird, he ran over to the bushes where it was hiding and locked up. The bird fellow from Missouri said and I quote: "Oh yeah, you have the pointers. I needed a retriever." So I said 'fetch it up' and Chief went in and got and brought it back to me. Then he said, "Well, I guess they are retrievers aren't they?"
Shoot, I don't know. I just take what I can get.
Julie |
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Trout Bum
Elbert County, CO
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| 05/24/2007 7:27 AM |
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Wouldn’t happen on a wild duck Julie, but like you, I’ll take whatever I get and enjoy the moment! 
I've done quit a bit of duck hunting over the last ½ dozen years. I think it would be a real long shot, getting a dog to lock up on a wild, uninjured duck during the season. Maybe up in Canada or the Dakota's on early season (dumb birds) in the perfect setting. They are way to leery, any noise or movement at all and they take flight. Dogs do lock in on spotted birds at a great distance and I suppose you could consider this sight pointing....however the flushing retrievers lock in just as much as the pointing retrievers do….I think Jere’s right on the money “It is not a point. It is part of the search behavior, not the capture behavior”
I do jump shoot on occasion and Pi does have it figured out. Heel (with reminders) quietly as possible, downwind and out of sight. I get into position for a good shot, she moves in, flushes and marks the downed birds. I assume there have been plenty of times when there was sufficient scent for her to lock up. The problem with that scenario, I would have to flush the birds and in most cases, probably not be in the best position for shooting. Sometimes she will crest the hill of the pond, or edge of the ditch bank and freeze. It's a sight point if anything, I take more along the lines of locking in like a duck dog is suppose to do.
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gsc
Wasilla, Alaska
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| 05/24/2007 8:07 AM |
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Jere, that last was "tongue in cheek",  but you make a good point. Does that make you a pointing trainer?
Julie, Thank you for the info. I know we all are poised, ready to order. |
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bsmiley
Fishers Indiana
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| 05/24/2007 11:15 AM |
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I think this is simply situational confusion in young PL's. And shows a good sign of natural point. In early training the dog is taught, "I agressively retrieve things that fly then get shot", and "when hunting for birds in cover, I stop and point". With more experience, they learn there are exceptions to this.
I ran Cody for his APR in Roberts where they raise lots of Mallards for preserve shoots. Many of these birds did not fly off but hid in the upland cover. His APR upland run consisted of 4 nice points. Two chukars, and two Mallards (he only got credit for the chukars). He was less than a year old and I did not want to encourage him to break point and grab a pointed bird, regardless of what it smelled like. It was not uncommon when he was young for him to stop and point a bumper in the field if we were in a "hunt dead" situation searching for a lost one. In his young mind he was saying, "look, here it is dad".
I think if a dog is young, has a tendency to point, gets rewarded for pointing, and realizes that this occures while running around looking for stuff in cover, then they are very likely to point all kinds of things in this situation (ducks, bumpers, pigeons, field mice).
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Cody, 2XGMPR, MH
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Jere
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| 05/24/2007 6:21 PM |
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Jay, I haven't duck hunted in some time - especially by my favorite mode - jump shooting. But I did regularly in my younger days.
Who said I am not happy??
When did I say some young dog that failed to handle birds perfectly is not a PL?? Please, find something, somewhere I said to that effect?
And where did I say the young dog pointing a live duck is not a retriever?
I'm glad you're laughing. I'd hate to see you bummed out on Thursday like you usually are on Friday
I, also would enjoy a point on a duck or ducks while jump shooting ducks. In fact, I encourage it as often as I can as I walk the dog's in the neighborhood here in Anchorage each evening. There are a couple of ponds on our route and sometimes drake mallards are loafing there while momma sits on the nest off in the swamp somewhere. I consider it good steadiness practice and feel such a behavior really could have utility over and above the dog at heel creeping along with me to see whether some birds are over the bank around the next bend.
I find your comments rather interesting. The last time I mentioned the possibility that a dog that whould point ducks in this manner on the other PLs forum, I basically got a ration of doo doo from the retriever nuts. I thought I had approached the subject rather cautiously and made no real commitment in my first post.
Have a nice weekend - it's almost FRIDAY.
Jere |
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Jere
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| 05/24/2007 6:28 PM |
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Julie, Not, Tahiti!! Just come to Alaska for the summer to wait for stuff to cool down. We'll make a real effort to get you onto some good fishing (There I go - sticking my neck out again but I'm hoping for help) and keep you away from the retriever field trials - unless you have an Alaskan Legend you may want to meet  , and by the time it turns cold in September or October, surely the book will be on the sellers' shelves and you can go home not fearing tar and feathers!
Jere |
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Jere
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| 05/24/2007 6:34 PM |
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Posted By gsc on 05/24/2007 8:07 AM
...but you make a good point. Does that make you a pointing trainer...
Greg., I don't know what I am anymore. Just trying to stimulate some thought and discussion.
I find long detailed posts trying to explicate processes and such don't achieve the desired results, and am trying brevity in some places
Jere
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