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Jere

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05/02/2007 10:02 PM	Alert
Posted By Julie on 05/02/2007 7:54 PM ... I have never understood why we don't allow the same learning curve for our animals. ... Julie, I'm getting to like you more and more... And I wrote that before I read that last embarrassing sentence. Thanks Jere

Trout Bum
Elbert County, CO

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05/03/2007 1:47 PM	Alert
Posted By hooligan on 05/02/2007 9:59 PM Matt, you're thinking like a person Freelance romps in the woods are great, but dogs need exposure to birds (and lots of it) in order to know what to do with birds. The more natural that exposure, the more your dog will learn. It takes birds to make a bird dog-no shortcuts will work. You will have to find birds, or buy them, or raise them-and be prepared for lots of them to get away-in order for your dog to have the kind of exposure she needs-she has to bump enough birds that fly away to make her want to stop and point them so she can check them out longer. The more she catches birds, the longer this will take (speaking from experience here!). Dog training is an investment-in time, in effort and in birds. Can you raise some quail and turn some loose in your woods before your walk every day? If you raise them in a johnny house, some might "recycle"...or you could do that with pigeons if you had to... Since the bird planting has not gone too well, I don't agree Hooli........the best way to get natural exposure would be via the woods. Especially since it sounds like grouse is what you will be hunting with the dog. Young turkey's flush just like a phez and smell like a wild game bird. Wild grouse in grouse woods, heck that's what it's all about in your neck of the woods! I wouldn't worry about what you can't see when she is in the woods. Or grouse you may see flying by that were flushed. Sooner or later she will figure it out and when you find her locked up tight with a grouse, it will be all worth while. I've said it numerous times on this and the other forum. I would much rather have one quality outing a month on wild birds than daily or weekly planted birds. Letting the dog take it's time to develop in the upland on wild birds it will be hunting. If you can mix in different species of wild birds all the better. Best of luck Matt!

¶r²

hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island

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05/03/2007 8:41 PM	Alert
TB, I was meaning for him to release birds into the woods so his dog could run across more of them while they were out on their walks. Not planted or dizzied in any way-just let go to wander around. Why is that bad? Thanks!

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Trout Bum
Elbert County, CO

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05/04/2007 6:26 AM	Alert
If the birds were good fliers that could not be caught it wouldn't necessarily be bad. And if he decides to go that route. My recomendation would be to release them several hours ahead of time. Just not as good as the real deal. Especially given the past history and lopsided retriever training. I think he would be further ahead just talking the walks and bird encounters as they come. If he will be grouse hunting with the dog and it sounds like he will. He's not going to find grouse around every corner while hunting. Doesn't have to be any different in developing and upland dog. Quality outings in natural settings on wild birds can not be duplicated......that's what I'm getting at Hooli..... I really like training young dogs on wild birds, there is nothing that comes close to it. You can't duplicate in any way shape or form....JH and liberated birds that are good fliers are an alturnitive but just not the same. Given the history of this dog, I think the best route is less encounters on wild birds, that' all...... He sure isn't going to take the point out of the dog with just a few encounters on wild birds. As the pup develops and learns how to find wild grouse the entounters will come more frequently. By mid summer the hens will be taking their chicks into the grass to eat bugs and grubs. The turkey pults will be about the size of a hen pheasant. The dog won't be able to catch any of them and the point will become stronger and stronger. Once Matt and the dog have figured out where they clutches are it gets even better. I believe Gary Ruppel, a Gould disciple, still takes a string of clients dogs up to the flat top wilderness area in the mts of CO to train on grouse. Spending 6-8 weeks camped out and taking advantage of the young birds in natural settings. The pointer and setter trial guys send their dogs to spend the summer and early fall in the Dakota’s, Sandhills of NB or even up into Canada for huns and sharp tails…….same reasons, nothing comes close to training on wild birds. Clutches of young birds provide an abundance of scent, exciting flushes of covies that are rarely caught by a dog. The birds don’t fly that far and can be worked again as singles if so desired.

¶r²

mattkeenan
Salem, OR

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05/04/2007 2:47 PM	Alert
great advice.... I'm getting more and more sold on the idea of wild birds... at least until I have some good flyers to release. Like Trout said.... the history of this pup has a lot to do with it - I wouldn't be as concerned otherwise. I really need to nip this problem in the bud, even if it means far fewer encounters. I am positive that she will get it, I just need to give her a fighting chance. Thanks for the feedback!

Matthew Keenan matthew.t.keenan@gmail.com

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Forums > American Pointing Labrador Association > Training > dog catching birds