HuntingMc
Kentucky
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| 03/28/2007 5:49 PM |
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| My male shorthair is having problems with the wagon wheel drill. I cannot get him to look at the bumpers until I give him the command. I can't tell if it is avoidance or he is just looking to me for guidance until he is sent.
This is causing us to not progress. 8 bumpers in a circle is the max I can get.
Mc |
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KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL
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| 03/28/2007 6:04 PM |
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Just work with four until he can do that easily. What steps have you taken leading up to doing the Wagon Wheel Drill? Actually, doing eight is pretty darn OK.  |
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II)
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"Excellence is Expected" |
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HuntingMc
Kentucky
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| 03/29/2007 5:08 AM |
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Kwik,
He can do four easily. 8 is ok and I would be fine with that if he would focus on the the bumper I am indicating. He looks out at the bumbers only when I give the command, which leads him to go to the one he sees first not always the one he is lined up on.
Steps prior to wagon wheel drill.
FF, FTP, successive bumpers in a line out to approx 100yds. |
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KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL
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| 03/29/2007 5:52 AM |
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What I would do in this case is push/pull work with just two bumpers. Throw them out at a fairly wide angle at first and line him up toward the last one. When he picks that one up have yourself lined up pointing toward the second one, but throw the one he just retrieved back to its original spot. Pull or push him back to the other one (not the one you just replaced) and send.
As he gets better as this, tighten up the angle. Also, mix the order up so that he learns you pick the target....not him. He will get more in tune with looking only straight ahead to the bumper you line him up on, and he should become more comfortable with being taken off any bumper you don't want him to get (in theory).
It is these little things that just don't go the way the books says that you have to finesse a dog through. They tell you by doing just what your dog is doing, and you either simplify and/or modify.
Do you know what push/pull means?
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II)
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"Excellence is Expected" |
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HuntingMc
Kentucky
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| 03/29/2007 7:00 AM |
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Kwik,
Thanks I'll give it a shot (depending on the weather) and let you know how it goes.
Mc |
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Jakebrake
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| 03/29/2007 10:34 AM |
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| Has he been force fetched? |
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Jay
Topeka, KS Go GORILLAS!!
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| 03/29/2007 11:09 AM |
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FF , FTP, successive bumpers in a line out to approx 100yds.
Jay ;)
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There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness.
GMPR APR HR Tornado Allie of Blk Forest |
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Jakebrake
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| 03/29/2007 3:03 PM |
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| sorry about that! very cool that you have a gsp doing advanced retriever stuff. I would love to see that. |
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Jay
Topeka, KS Go GORILLAS!!
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| 03/30/2007 10:14 AM |
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That is really nice for a GSP! I walked forward to help simplify, but I can see Kwick's thinking. Either way, this is what the drill is supposed to teach.
A handling GSP....I can't say that I've ever seen one! Cool!!
Jay |
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There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness.
GMPR APR HR Tornado Allie of Blk Forest |
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KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL
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| 03/30/2007 1:30 PM |
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I agree Jay, moving up or simplifying are some things that can be done. They are usually effective.
I've added a third....present what you want to teach in a different picture. Sometimes a "change of pace" is refreshing.
It's kind of like saying, "Ya know.....let's look at this in another way. Thrown bumpers are more exciting. I can create two definite targets which will emphasize the idea of looking straight ahead (as opposed to not doing so)."
Once the mechanics of the routine are established through repetition, it will carryover. Sometimes, the basic drills just don't fit the learning style of a dog at that time and the required repetition doesn't happen. |
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II)
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"Excellence is Expected" |
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HuntingMc
Kentucky
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| 03/30/2007 3:14 PM |
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He did fine with the push pull drill. Perhaps the choices of all the bumpers in front of him overwelms him, I'm not sure but he does NOT like the wagon wheel. Not a big deal if I can use wide doubles then just bring them in closer together and get the same result. Thanks for all the help. I'll update you guys to see how close I can put the 2 bumpers and get him to differentiate between.
As far as a handling GSP if you guys see him you may wish you hadn't. Hehe. I don't have him sit when he goes off line. It was whoa, come, whoa. then the cast till he got the hint that he needed to face me when whoa'd on a retrieve. It is sloppy and ugly but maybe with time and patience we will get it cleaned up.
The dogs name is smoke and he is 7 years old now. The poor dog should be nominated for saint hood for all the crazy stuff he has put up with as I try to learn how to train and read dogs. This dog could tell stories about me. |
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KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL
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| 03/30/2007 5:40 PM |
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| Well, I think it is great new adventure that you two are taking on. |
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II)
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"Excellence is Expected" |
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OD
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| 04/14/2007 7:57 PM |
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Hunting MC,
Take your time. Good GSP's have some gray matter. They are wired differently though. There is no reason why you cant teach him blinds. I am doing the same with my GSP. Fortunately for him he does not know he is not a lab. I just tell him he is a lab trapped in a GSP body. He believes me since I have been telling him this since he was eight weeks old. I do all the marks with him I do with the labs. Traditional pointing guys cringe when they hear about pointers reaching their potential outside the so called norm in training. Some of them should take a look at the dogs that are doing what they say they cant or shouldn't be doing. A dog gets good at what they train at!
The key is focus. Try using a frozen pigeon to get them fired up about picking things up in the drill mode. Sometimes they need something more. As I said the are wired differently.
Have fun and do what you like with your dog.
Gary |
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