galaxie428
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| 03/27/2007 2:47 PM |
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I am working with my pup on some basic commands and while I can get him to sit, I so far have been unable to get him to sit and stay until I tell him otherwise. As soon as I take a step back, he comes with me. Do any of you have any tips on getting him to stay without the use of two people? Thanks for your help.
Jason |
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Rob G
Cedaredge, CO
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| 03/27/2007 3:55 PM |
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First I would ask how old is your pup?
If he is less than 6 months old, I would not be working on sit at all.
Are you using a lead and choke chain?
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ahayes
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| 03/27/2007 4:03 PM |
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galaxie
Try walking in front of the pup so you can control with a leash. George Hickox uses a pole made with pvc. It has a snap on the end to fasten to the collar. It is rigid enough to push the pup down.
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keskam
Pierce, Colorado
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| 03/27/2007 4:05 PM |
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I dont really teach stay! When I do OB with one of my dogs sit means SIT!! that is it period. So if the dog moves on a remote sit I put him right back in the same place and pull up on the choke collar and say SIT!! You should make sure he has the sit down with healing before you move on to a remote sit (Plus with remote sit he will really start to understand the word Here) PS always use a check cord while training until he is CC. good luck! |
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mattkeenan
Salem, OR
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| 03/27/2007 4:44 PM |
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| exactly what i was gonna say. |
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Matthew Keenan
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galaxie428
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| 03/27/2007 5:45 PM |
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He is 10 months old. When I was talking about sit and stay I was talking about 1 command also, sit.
I have a lead that I use but no choke chain.
I was working on heel, sit and a little woah work all at once. Not in the same sequence but heel for a while, then switch to something else when he seems to be getting uninterested. Should I just be working on one thing at a time until he gets that command down? |
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keskam
Pierce, Colorado
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| 03/27/2007 7:37 PM |
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| I would invest in a choke chain, Have you ever used one before? I like to do heel and sit together by my side. Have you ever done OB with a dog before? If not find a pro and pay for a couple of lessons, you will be glad you did, well worth the investment!! I did. I like to Whoa the dog last or a totally different session, Do you have Julies book? |
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galaxie428
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| 03/28/2007 4:18 AM |
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No, I have never used a choke chain before and this is the first dog I have owned that I have tried to do any OB with. I am sure his trainer isn't helping him out any !
I bought an online copy of Julie's first book but I have a hard time sitting down long enough to do any reading. I am on the computer all day at work so when I get home, looking at another computer or reading is about one of the last things I prefer to do. Does she have any training dvd's or does someone else provide any good ones?
Thanks,
Jason
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HuntingMc
Kentucky
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| 03/28/2007 5:55 AM |
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Should you work one on command? yes. Have and objective for your training session.
Sounds like you dog thinks sit means put my butt on the floor, not put my butt on the floor and stay there till told otherwise. Soooo you are still in the teach mode with this command. Sit can be especially confusing when mixed in with heel. One time you want the dog to stay next time you want the dog to move forward with you. Take shorter sessions if necessary to keep the dogs attention and just concentrate on sit. I would not even use the heel command in your "Sit" session. If you are standing with the dog at the heel position. Command sit. Start by pivoting on your foot to put your self in front of your dog. If the dog stays great. Tell him good dog. If not, while still standing in front of the dog put him back in the sit position. Keep working in this manner till you can back away from the dog and he will stay. When you can move away from the dog. Mix up wether you call the dog to you or you return to the dog. That way the dog does not think " I just have to wait here for a few seconds then I can go to the boss"
This may have been way more in depth than you needed but too much info is better than not enough.
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Jay
Topeka, KS Go GORILLAS!!
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| 03/28/2007 5:57 AM |
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Since you are just teaching the dog the commands, I would keep them separate. Your dog may be thinking that it needs to keep heeling instead of sitting, so I would start with sit. Get a choke chain big enough to fit over the dogs head, but not so big that it hangs down to the floor. When you use a choke chain it is very important that you put it on correctly. Put the chain through one of the rings to form the round collar, and put it on the dog so that this ring slides DOWN the slack end of the chain when there is no tension. The ring end of the chain should be coming from the bottom side of the neck to do this. Try it out on your hand first, so that you see what I mean. If you put it on the opposite way (the ring coming over the top of the neck), then the chain will stay tight if you drop the tension on the collar. It's not going to stay so tight that it chokes the dog, but it compromises the effectiveness of the collar. Put the collar and leash on, and throw a couple short fun bumpers to keep it happy (IMHO). Tell the dog to sit, and give a jerk, followed by another sit command. After giving a jerk, give the lead some slack so that the collar does not have any tension. Just stay at it's side for a little while and tell him good boy. Release him and try it again. This time, after you have been there a little while, tell him sit and slowly walk a step or two in front. Keep reminding him to sit, and maybe even keeping a little bit of tension on the collar (stretch your arms). If he moves, then say sit, and give another jerk on the chain. You can keep extending this and demanding more. If he starts to get bored with it, taking it that the session isn't going 20 minutes or something, start to pick up the pace and demand more of him. Get his attention. You could also start to work in your whistle as well, or start teaching heeling to further make the dog focus. Just make sure that you have it nailed down before you start throwing in other commands, you don't want to totally confuse the dog. When you first start this you will notice that the dog will start to ignore the old command, going more towards the new correction/command. This is normal and understandable as a dog thinks, just keep reminding him to keep following the command, but be understanding. Use the choke chain in the same way for heel, always grouping the correction with the command / heel - jerk - heel. The choke doesn't choke the dog, or hurt it, it just demands the dog's attention and response.
Take your online copy of Julie's book to work with you and read it during lunch!!!!! This is just the first step, and you have a long ways to go. It will really be beneficial to you and your dog to figure out the sequences of training.
Good luck, and keep us posted!!
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KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL
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| 03/28/2007 6:55 AM |
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Since the topic of a choker collar comes up so often, KwickLabs now has a link to The Choker Collar. Any input to how it reads or looks would be appreciated. 
”The Choker Collar (Link)” |
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
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stuw
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| 03/28/2007 7:01 AM |
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galixie..Jay and Mc are both right on...maybe another thing you should add to your training stuff..is a place board...or just a 2 x 3 rug...sit the dog on the board (or rug) and comand "sit"...if the dog moves put him back on the board...just keep repeating this.. the board or rug gives him/her a place to focus...soon you'll be able to move away from the dog further and further...if the dog gets up to move...sit him back down on the board and repeat the process....after awhile you'll be able to do this without the board or rug..and the dog will know sit and that sit means STAY
George Hickox has a dvd showing how this works..
heres a pic of my place board
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hooligan
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| 03/28/2007 8:14 AM |
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Great pic, Stu!  |
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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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Jay
Topeka, KS Go GORILLAS!!
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| 03/28/2007 8:22 AM |
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They look like two worn out kids after playing hard in the snow.
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hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island
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| 03/28/2007 8:46 AM |
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| galaxie, since this is your first pup, it will REALLY help you to take him to an obedience class. Find one that uses choke chains and not treats and clickers, since you are using a choke chain to train your dog. You need to see how it should be done, and watch problems other people have, too-it will help you more than reading and having to imagine what they are talking about. Your pup is already 10 months old, and probably big and strong-he should be doing this already-so get some help so you know the proper way to teach him. Everyone has a "first pup", and everyone needs help in the beginning! Good luck! |
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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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stuw
North Central Minnesota
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| 03/28/2007 9:39 AM |
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They both were worn out before I took that pic...I ran them thru the woods behind the house for a half hour in the deep snow..letting them tire out abit..but they sure sat nice after that...
I've used the place board since Ellie (on the left)was about 6mos old..kwick turned me on to it..and it works great for alot of things...I have 4 of them that I use for early casting drills...wagon wheel etc etc..they also are great for getting the dogs to line up with forthe fall..or a blind..I just get up there with them..and they have to be pointing the right way..or they fall off..
Dragon grew up with a place board..I had one in her kennel since the day she came home..I wouldnt feed her till she was up on it...so there was no real transition once I moved it out to the yard...
They both know that when they are on there...they best not be coming off till I say so...in the pic above..we are working on honoring...both must sit and stay while I throw a bumper and send them by name...if the wrong dog moves...they both have to re sit and I pick up the bumper... neither gets the retrieve...all in all its been working pretty well..yesterday they both stayed put..and neither had a collar on
I need to get this solid and soon..Ellie needs one more pass for her SHR..and then we start running seasoned
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keskam
Pierce, Colorado
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| 03/28/2007 2:57 PM |
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| Kwick, VERY NICE ABOUT CHOKE COLLAR GOOD PICKS ON HOW TO PUT IT ON AND HOW NOT TO!!! |
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Doc_E
N.E. WA state
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| 03/28/2007 6:58 PM |
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I'm truly surprised that nobody has mentioned the very bes way to teach "SIT/stay". The rope around the post method.
Drive a metal fence post into the ground (you can also use the ball of your trailer hitch).
Run a L O N G rope around the post. Have one end (the dog end) about 5' in front of the post and your end out as far as it will go. Hook the dog to the short end of rope and you have the other part of the rope in your hand. Command SIT (you are about 3' in front of the dog). Slowly back away, letting the rope slide through your hand. If the dog breaks, jerk your part of the rope and command SIT. This pulls the dog backward into a sit position (dogs are amazed that you can be in front of them and pull them backwards).
This is kind of complicated to explain, but in actuallity, it's very easy. If you have "Smartwork", there is a nice diagram of the process (and a lot better explanation than I can give).
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Doc E and Cujo Casey boy. |
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