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Subject: How Far Do You Stretch Um?

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Goose

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03/08/2007 5:52 AM	Alert
I have always thought this, what do you think Kwick.... You said "Swim-by provides the skill." It should also be noted that water force plays a part in this as these type of situations are the reason why water force is necessary.... Even for a dog that loves water!! When indirect pressure is used around water, a dog that is water forced is more likely to make a water orientated correction if you will. In other words, a properly trained dog to water force and swimby will be more likely to take on more water in situations like these than one that is not. The nick from the E-collar reminds him that taking on more water is the correct way out of the situation. What do ya think? Because a lot of people do not water force because "my dog already loves the water."

KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL

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03/08/2007 7:46 AM	Alert
In other words, a properly trained dog to water force and swimby will be more likely to take on more water in situations like these than one that is not. This is true. Sequential training leading up to decheating is preceeded by force to water and swim-by in that order. Force to water using the e-collar is used to increase momentum when entering water and provide a tool for de-popping (a repeat of what was done on land). These concepts were already "explained" to the dog when force to pile and single T were done on land. The reason force to water and swim-by are done is that land skills do not easily transfer to water. The nick from the E-collar reminds him that taking on more water is the correct way out of the situation. However, during decheating the e-collar force to water technique is NOT used because you are not looking for momentum into the water. The dog does NOT understand the correct route, and has the instinctive penchant to cheat. This means in the dog's mind there are two choices. De-cheating is done to teach the dog the correct choice. Since this is a teaching lesson, the e-collar is not part of the exercise. Once the dog acquires the skill, it would be correct to apply an indirect pressure. In other words, the rule of e-collar use is "no corrections until the dog has learned what you are teaching". Therefore, attrition is the proper way to "get the dog in the water" during exposure to de-cheating. It seems that if the dog does not take the correct cast, this calls for a correction. However, the decision to not use the e-collar is based on two facts 1) this is a new idea to the dog and 2) it is too big a "leap" to expect spontaneous insight. You are essentially asking him to take the correct cast, enter the water and NOT cheat (all three at the same time).......this is new territory......thus no e-collar. What I am emphasizing is getting a dog to do what you want should be taught first. Once a dog is de-cheated, they can make the distinction betweem route choices and deal with an e-collar correction. It is all about being consistent and fair.

Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II) ---------------------------------- "Excellence is Expected"

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03/08/2007 5:50 PM	Alert
Actually, the way Goose is trained, the indirect pressure on sit does imply to make the choice, if it be between getting into the water or not, to get in. A 'seek water' thought process as opposed to anything geometrical in the swim by. But I don't disagree with your basic tenets. I am not always smart enough to keep up with you!

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Forums > American Pointing Labrador Association > Training > How Far Do You Stretch Um?