6 month playing when retrieving > Forum > American Pointing Lab Association

Forums

Forums > American Pointing Labrador Association > Training

Subject: 6 month playing when retrieving

Please Register to post to the American Pointing Labrador Association Forums

Page 2 of 2

Author

Messages

Doc_E
N.E. WA state

Grand Master

Online Status: User is Offline

Posts:1023

02/26/2007 8:51 AM	Alert
Posted By oakcreeklabs It slows them down, takes away from their point, cuts the range, and overall slows down progress. Might be true, but it certainly wasn't the case with Casey. .

Doc E and Cujo Casey boy.

oakcreeklabs
Moundridge Kansas

Advanced

Online Status: User is Offline

Posts:207

02/26/2007 9:05 AM	Alert
How would you know what it did to their progress after doing it with all three. What I am going off of is training females from the same litter the two different ways, and doing this over and over with different litter mates. You have no idea what they could have been or would have been. Not to say it would have been better for what you wanted. Heavy OB will decrease range, all dogs during times of correction lose a little style (and for a pl sometimes lose point all together). You really don't think young dogs ranging sometimes confused with the heel commands that you did all the way into the field. I tried to stress "for the most part", and I will stand by my comments. For upland hunting and overall living, most OB is unneeded.

KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL

Master
Master

Online Status: User is Offline

Posts:679

02/26/2007 9:33 AM	Alert
You really don't think young dogs ranging sometimes confused with the heel commands that you did all the way into the field. No....not mine.

Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II) ---------------------------------- "Excellence is Expected"

hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island

Master
Master

Online Status: User is Offline

Posts:783

02/26/2007 9:40 AM	Alert
I got a PL because it was the perfect hunting style for us-a "foot" hunting dog with a comfortable pace in the upland field and one who would be equally good for waterfowl. The range question, to me, seems to be one of making a PL hold it's own with other breeds who are primarily pointers-and I wonder why? I have hunted with shorthairs, and Pudelpointers, and frankly, I felt like I was following a beeper around. Part of the enjoyent for me is being able to SEE my dog working. I cannot imagine a dog without much OB for "overall living". Maybe it is not important if your dogs live outside, but mine are in the house! I think the OB in the field question is a matter of degree. There are some people who, indeed, turn their dogs into little machines because they want complete control and get it without enough release. But it is possible to have a dog with proper manners (which is what I think OB really is) without taking away it's hunting drive.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

oakcreeklabs
Moundridge Kansas

Advanced

Online Status: User is Offline

Posts:207

02/26/2007 9:54 AM	Alert
It all comes down to what I have stated I liked in a dog. I like a dog to take a hedge row to the end and then pop out 200yds down, I like a dog to go over the hill, I like a dog that when younger runs to big and busts birds, I like a dog that you have to hollar at for awhile, a dog that has so much bottom she is hard to train, the type of dog that most people think I am nuts for owning, basically the type of dog that hits the ground getting after it and finds more birds then yours. Now some of my dogs fit this, and others are being looked at. I enjoy not knowing where a dog is, but expecting them to do their job regardless. That's possibly why I like big running pointers as well.

Doc_E
N.E. WA state

Grand Master

Online Status: User is Offline

Posts:1023

02/26/2007 10:05 AM	Alert
Posted By oakcreeklabs on 02/26/2007 9:05 AM 1. You have no idea what they could have been or would have been. 2. Heavy OB will decrease range, all dogs during times of correction lose a little style (and for a pl sometimes lose point all together). 3. You really don't think young dogs ranging sometimes confused with the heel commands that you did all the way into the field. I tried to stress "for the most part", and I will stand by my comments. 4. For upland hunting and overall living, most OB is unneeded. 1. I believe that my dog is all he could or would have been. I don't need him to be any better than he is........ 2. Because of good OB (i.e. Casting), Casey will range at whatever distance I want (20-30 yards up to 200 yards). I start him off with a "Smell for birds" command (same as "Hunt 'em up). When he is at my distance preference, I command "Not too far" and he will hunt at that distance. If I need him closer, I can bring him in -- If I want him farther out, I command "Go on BACK". All of these commands are dependant on OB........ 3. I never saw a problem with one affecting the other........ 4. I kind of respectfully disagree. Certainly OB is not as important in Upland as it is in Waterfowl (except what I described in my #2), but for being "unneeded in everyday living", I really disagree with you on that one. .

Doc E and Cujo Casey boy.

oakcreeklabs
Moundridge Kansas

Advanced

Online Status: User is Offline

Posts:207

02/26/2007 11:13 AM	Alert
there is a huge difference between casting a dog, and the dogs natural ability to make large casts. And I respect the fact that you disagree with me, this is just what I have seen while training and helping train around 100 labs and pointers. I only have one dog that lives inside with me, she knows sit. And in her prime she was the best upland dog that I have ever seen when it comes to Labradors. Possibly I have just seen to many young dogs hammered with OB at a young age that never made it in the uplands because they always wanted to heel.

KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL

Master
Master

Online Status: User is Offline

Posts:679

02/26/2007 12:19 PM	Alert
Possibly I have just seen to many young dogs hammered with OB at a young age that never made it in the uplands because they always wanted to heel. Maybe so, but the question begs why? OB/retriever skill training should not have a "hammered" mentality. In spite of what some think, OB is not a spirit crushing tragedy. Retriever training is fun for the properly trained dog. In my book, any dog that "always wants to heel" is poorly trained and/or a genetic disaster. By building a compartmentalized program from the beginning a dog is free in the upland, but under control when asked. Seems to me "bootlickers" are made because of poor training choices which made control the ONLY thing going on. That's just wrong, but it does not mean that OB is the problem.......the dog is doing what it was taught to do. As a teacher I learned long ago, the curriculum is not usually the problem.......it is the teacher. Done right....a good soldier can be creative and flamboyant.....when given leave.

Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II) ---------------------------------- "Excellence is Expected"

Doc_E
N.E. WA state

Grand Master

Online Status: User is Offline

Posts:1023

02/26/2007 12:19 PM	Alert
Posted By oakcreeklabs on 02/26/2007 11:13 AM there is a huge difference between casting a dog, and the dogs natural ability to make large casts. Once Casey had been exposed to birds, he ran big. It was through OB that I could control his distance. .

Doc E and Cujo Casey boy.

oakcreeklabs
Moundridge Kansas

Advanced

Online Status: User is Offline

Posts:207

02/26/2007 12:29 PM	Alert
Doc, it seems that you have trained your dog correctly. You made sure that he did the basics of upland hunting before doing reinforcement OB work. You are an avid duck hunter as well, so OB has a lot to do with your hunting. Dogs that are going to be duck hunted need more OB training then purely upland dogs. That is my only point. By doing to much OB early in life before other socializing occurs can be harmful to a dog in all hunting scenerios, but I believe the upland is hit the most. I don't think that can be argued.

Please Register to post to the American Pointing Labrador Association Forums

Page 2 of 2

Forums > American Pointing Labrador Association > Training > 6 month playing when retrieving