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Subject: Too Shoot or not to shoot

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farmershy

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01/30/2007 10:24 AM	Alert
Hello, First time post and first time Pointing lab owner... I have a 5 month old PL that has been on birds since 3 months...He points most of the time and then flushes...I have been told and have read NOT to shoot unless he holds point and you flush...but then I have heard and read to shoot some birds over him so he gets the "game".... My thought is that since he is young that shooting a few birds over him will get him excited and as he gets older then start bringing the whoa and not shooting unless he holds....????? I am just looking for anyones thoughts....

OD

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01/30/2007 10:58 AM	Alert
Farmershy, You have a few steps to do before deciding to shoot or not shoot. What your pups is doing is what most of them do. The flushing days should be over from this point on. I recommend using pigeons for birds. They fly away and generally dont land on the ground near your dog. Catching birds reinforces catching more birds. Is your obdience solid with your dog? If not start working on that first I would be more conerned with begining to work on steadiness than anything else besides OB. The place to do that is in the yard first then in the field. I would start whoaing him and give him a lot of praise for staying put. Nothing wrong with shooting a couple of birds for your dog. Asuuming you have introduced him to a shot already. Dont pull out a 12 gauge and start shooting over him. Use a starter pistol or something like it. Have someone throw a bird, shoot the cap and then send your dog on the retreive. Your trying to teach your dog that a pop is a good thing and that it usually means a bird is going down and he has a job to do. As far as whoaing goes there are some different thoughts to that. I ALWAYS whoa a dog with a bird. From day one. If you think about it that is the ultimate goal. Steadiness on a bird. Whoaing on birds teaches whoaing on birds. PRG

Doc_E
N.E. WA state

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01/30/2007 11:25 AM	Alert
No point (or broken point or flush) = No Shot. Don't reward the dog for breaking point. Follow a proven training program. .

Doc E and Cujo Casey boy.

Jay
Topeka, KS Go GORILLAS!!

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01/30/2007 11:33 AM	Alert
After two months, I would guess that he is very bold on birds. I'd hold off on more bird work until you have the tools to keep him steady, so that you can shoot. Like Doc said, don't shoot if it breaks, if you do decide to keep him on birds. Jay

There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness. GMPR APR HR Tornado Allie of Blk Forest

farmershy

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01/30/2007 11:40 AM	Alert
He is OK in th OB I was really going to start that this month. I have taken the shooting slow from a blank gun at 3 months 410 at 4 and i have shot a 12 over him and he is good to go.....I have shot when he has held and i walk in and I shot when he pointed and flushed....I guess there is definitely an opinion on this as your post and the other state. I have trained pointers in the past and have train them with the no point no shoot theory, but I have heard so many different things when it is a PL. So all the info I can get is helpful...keep it coming Thanks!

bsmiley
Fishers Indiana

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01/30/2007 11:45 AM	Alert
Response from a first time pointing lab owner that has been through this process only once. I am starting the second time right now, at about the same place you are but with a 3 year old dog. I would stop the upland work altogether until you start the whoa process or some other formal pointing training. If the dog is actively hunting upland birds, finding them and naturally pointing them, then your "exposure" lesson is complete. Adding more birds and shooting flushed birds will tell the dog that his behavior is acceptable to you and you start to move from an "exposure" lesson to actually ingraining undesireable habbits. At 5 months, I would focus on yard work like OB, whistle, intro casting, in prep for force fetch at 6-7 months, then go to whoa. It helps tremendously to have a formal outline of your training program so that you can see the roadmap of where you are going. There are those on this site that have been through this more than once and are therefore more qualified to help you out with that program than I am. Good luck, sounds like you have a dog that has the right stuff. Challenge now is to make sure it is developed your way at this stage of the game and not his way.

Cody, 2XGMPR, MH Yeager, CPLD (Certified Pointing Lap Dog) Cruz, GMPIA (Grand Master Pain in ...)

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