kuhoops4
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| 11/18/2006 9:08 AM |
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Wanted to know at about what age did many of you start working on the point with your dog. My lab is 6 months and we have been following the richard wolters training schedule. Although he is a very heasdstrong dog he is doing well with this training method, i wanted to move onto sharpening his pointing skills but was wondering if 6 months is too young to expect an extended point, he has alot of puppy in him. |
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browndog
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| 11/18/2006 7:12 PM |
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richard wolters had some really good concepts but there is better info out especially for pointing lab owners.
get knutson's book on pointing labs. |
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Doc_E
N.E. WA state
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| 11/20/2006 5:22 PM |
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Posted By kuhoops4 on 11/18/2006 9:08 AM
1. Wanted to know at about what age did many of you start working on the point with your dog.
2. My lab is 6 months and we have been following the richard wolters training schedule.
3. Although he is a very heasdstrong dog he is doing well with this training method, i wanted to move onto sharpening his pointing skills but was wondering if 6 months is too young to expect an extended point, he has alot of puppy in him.
1. Doing "The Walk", my dog first pointed at 12 weeks of age.
2. Crap - crap - crap. Get the Knutson Book.
3. What do you consider an "extended point"?
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Doc E and Cujo Casey boy. |
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ozzy
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| 01/05/2007 6:10 PM |
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| My thoughts on this would be: they are never to young to work on birds. The pointing will be there if it is in the genetics. As for an extended point, I have found that by taking the pup out and letting him find and flush birds that he will soon start to hold the point on his own. I feel that a pup needs a lot of bird exposure before you get too concerned about WHOA and extended points. I also feel that an imature puppy will learn a lot from the exposure to birds.
The book that was mentioned will surely help you when your dog is ready to be steadied. Far too many pups do not get enough bird exposure EARLY ON! Birds will do a lot of good for any puppy... even the imature ones. |
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Flyhity
Maple Valley, WA
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| 01/06/2007 7:06 AM |
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My pup is now 7 months old. She reacted to her first planted bird exposure PERFECTLY!
Due to the inability to acquire good flight conditioned birds in Western Wash. I have had to move on so she did not learn to catch & eat them.
Since then I have been trying to expose her to wild birds. Things have not gone well at all. She does not seem to be taking to the wild bird scent or recognizing it. What direction do you recommend I go to next? I know Knutsens book tells us that more bird exposure is the key - but it does not seem that she recognizes what she is supposed to be out there for. Is traveling to a hunt club and buying planted birds the answer? I want to do things right, but I seem to have stagnated with her progression.
Any help will be appreciated. |
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2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!
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| 01/06/2007 7:45 AM |
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| From what you just posted it sounds like a vist to the club where you could work her into birds planted in known locations would be best again. One or two trips with a half dozen each time should get her really turned on and then if your season is still open get back out on the wild ones. I just went thru this with a much older-3 yr old female and she is now flying thru the ks uplands on the wild ones (When the weather allows...like hopefully tomorrow!) Try to get her to that club 2 days in a row... |
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ozzy
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| 01/07/2007 8:45 PM |
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| Sorry to say, finding good flight conditioned birds can be a problem. We all have to find ways to use what we have or can get. You will need to set up situations where she can have the exposure to the birds but not be able to catch them. One way that I use is to plant the birds (do not dizzy them)along a fence row or some type of obstruction that will allow the dog to smell and point the bird. Typically they will even try to crawl thru the fence at first. But it allows them to start getting some exposure to birds but keeps them from catching them. As she gets more familiar with things you will have to start using a checkcord.
The hunt club I go to has a recall pen that is used for this type of training. You simply fly some birds out of it and take the dog to the field. The birds are typically strong flyers which will prevent the dog from catching them. They will then recall to the pen and can be used over and over.
I also have one (recall pen)at home that I use. The birds get rather wild and the dogs seem to learn a great deal.
I suggest that you talk to local trainers or clubs to see what they may offer that could help you with this type of training.
Good Luck, |
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Flyhity
Maple Valley, WA
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| 01/09/2007 6:14 AM |
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| Thank you for the tips. I had hoped the exposure to the wild birds would continue to develop her interest, as the initial set of planted quail set her on fire. Unfortunately, the wild ones did not do the trick. I will take your advice and take the next logical step and go to a hunt club and introduce her to some planted birds. |
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Air Castle
Claremore,Oklahoma
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| 01/09/2007 10:13 AM |
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At the time you book your hunt let the person know what you are trying to accomplish that day ahead of time. This will let them know how to set out birds and where to set birds to accomplish what you are looking for. I personally like to set birds totally different for this sceniro. A hunt should be a hunt not a real training sceniro. |
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Tom McCool
Air Castle Ranch
Pointing Labs Do It All
www.aircastleranch.com |
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Flyhity
Maple Valley, WA
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| 01/09/2007 7:57 PM |
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I was just contacted by a local source that has 5 flight conditioned phesants if I want them. How do you recommend I set them up. I do not have any intention of shooting them for her yet. She does not have any problems with gunfire, I just think she just needs to encounter them and I will let them fly off. Quail are my prference - but in Washington finding flight conditioned any game birds are like finding sunshine right now- I'll take any approproiate game birds I can find.
Any recommendations on set up will be appreciated! |
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keskam
Pierce, Colorado
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| 01/09/2007 8:35 PM |
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| Flyhity, Something that i have learned, if she points the bird or does what you expect she should do at her age then shoot the bird. If you want her to point and she flushes the bird let it fly away! Her goal is the retrieve! If she does what you expect reward her, If she doesnt dont reward her behavior! |
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HR Rocky Mountain Rosco JH
APR HR Lady Satin of Black Forest JH
SHR Satin's Jumpin Jedi JH
SHR Chelsea Snow Angel JH
APR HR KB's Snakey Jake of Poudre River JH
SHR KB's It's Showtime of Bearpoint (Star)
SHR KB's Loaded To Go Allie
KB's Black Diamond Tessa |
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Flyhity
Maple Valley, WA
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| 01/10/2007 6:41 AM |
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She pointed at the planted quail nearly two months ago, but she has not pointed or really acted like she knew what she was looking for on our hunts for wild birds. That is why I've been questioning my next step to get her interested again.
Being a newbie, it's not always easy to know what to do. |
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ozzy
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| 01/10/2007 6:42 AM |
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| Regarding the pheasants and setting up the encounter. One thing you will need to do is to make sure you use the wind to your advantage. Also, regarding the pheasants there are a number of ways to use them. Not knowing exactly what you have done with your pup and the field conditions you will be using, I will give you a couple of ideas (Quail,Chuckar and Pigeons are my first choice). I am a rather tight (poor) individual, so I try to use and re-use my birds as much as possible. I feel that the killing is the small part of things in training. #1)One way I use a pheasant is to attach a rubber band to his leg to prevent him from running. This way I can typically have one good encounter with the bird. They will kick the rubber band off once the flush. #2) I use a long cord (5 feet) with a piece of old garden hose (2 feet)attached to one end. This will allow the bird to flush and still allow me to recover it. When using the cord and hose I typically have my dog on a check cord. There is a possibilty of the dog catching the bird in this set up. Pheasants in my area are rather pricy. I would probably shoot the birds that were worked with good results. If your dog has had very limited bird work the taste of feathers will also enhance the hunt for her as well. You must realize that your pup also has to learn that you and the gun are part of the hunt too! |
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keskam
Pierce, Colorado
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| 01/10/2007 12:48 PM |
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| Flyhity, You might want to see if you can find somebody in your area to help you train her sounds like alot of missed steps ,something we have all done. If you have Julie Knutsons book go back and follow her steps, if she is not understanding what she is doing in the field then back up and have her on a check cord tell her HUNT EM UP bring her to the bird let her point, have somebody else kick the bird up and let her retrieve the bird! If she rushes in to flush the bird without pointing stop her and have your freind kick the bird up and do not shoot it , if you shoot the bird when she flushes it without pointing you are promoting that behavior! and you could train the point right out of her. so if you find somebody to train with you up there make sure they know wht they are doing! The best thing for you is to pay for a 2 months of training for her by a pro,it will be so worth it in the long run! |
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HR Rocky Mountain Rosco JH
APR HR Lady Satin of Black Forest JH
SHR Satin's Jumpin Jedi JH
SHR Chelsea Snow Angel JH
APR HR KB's Snakey Jake of Poudre River JH
SHR KB's It's Showtime of Bearpoint (Star)
SHR KB's Loaded To Go Allie
KB's Black Diamond Tessa |
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2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!
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| 01/10/2007 5:45 PM |
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| The taste of feathers is whats gonna get her turned back on. |
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Flyhity
Maple Valley, WA
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| 01/10/2007 8:29 PM |
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Appreciate the info.
I know I have definately missed some key points. I never dreamed how hard it would be to find birds to train with, as described in Julies book. Everything was going along very well, right as the book had described. I purchased the ONLY quail I could find, which were weak fliers. She went through the introduction perfectly, but was able to catch the second set of quail I set out so I was forced to stop. That is where my whole program has stalled. I took her out hunting to expose her to wild birds but I don't think she had enough introduction.
There are not any trainers I have been able to locate in the Washington area - with the exception of Tiger Mt. I have an inquiry into John to see what he offers. |
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Doc_E
N.E. WA state
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| 01/10/2007 8:40 PM |
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Flyhity,
Where in WA are you?
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Doc E and Cujo Casey boy. |
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mattkeenan
Salem, OR
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| 01/14/2007 4:06 PM |
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Flyhity,
I have had very similar problems with my 10 mo. old PL. From early on, I set up too many situation in which she was able to actually catch the bird. I wanted her to learn that she doesn't catch a bird that she tries to flush, so the plan was to let her do her thing (with a check-cord on), and if she pointed the birds, then I would hold her with the cord, tell her woah, and make her stand there while my buddy flushed and shot the bird. And if she flushed it, well then I just let it go and hoped it would be there next time I trained. However, she got her mouth on way too many of those birds! I tried "carded" and "garden-hosed", and even free-planted pigeons and chuckars. I made a vow to myself of no more caught birds! I took her out today on 5 planted chuckar. If she looked like she was going to flush the bird (this can be very difficult to tell, since often she would rush in close, then point the bird), then I would make certain to stop her just short of the bird by pulling on the check cord. I then made her whoa (not necessary if pup is not whoa-broke), while my gunner flushed the bird but did not shoot. Although she wanted to chase the bird down, I took her in the opposite direction and tried to make her hunt another field while I circled back to downwind of the landed bird. By the time we got to where it had landed, the bird had time to establish some scent and find some cover. This time when Stella got there, she locked up on point, so I held her on whoa while my buddy tried to kick it up. Well, he ended up chasing the bird around for a while, even actually kicking it - without it flushing. he eventually picked it up and threw it, then shot it, and Stella was completely ecstatic with the opportunity to retrieve it. Good thing I didn't count on the bird flusing if pup decided not to point! It is imperitive to stay extremely vigilant of where the bird is (if you know), or how the dog is acting to make certain that you restrain pup via check cord if he's about to eat the bird! DO NOT count on the bird flushing! |
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Matthew Keenan
matthew.t.keenan@gmail.com |
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Flyhity
Maple Valley, WA
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| 01/15/2007 8:54 PM |
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Thank You for the scenarios. It is helpful to hear how it is done in simple terms so my little brian can picture it and follow along. I think I will try a similar situation to what Matt has described, it sounds logical to get us on the right track. I just need to lose the snow and temperatures in the teens for a day or two.
I live in the little overpopulated town of Maple Valley, in Western Washington - approx 45miles east of Seattle and 100 miles West of Ellesmburg - where we keep adding houses but leave the roads the same. Doc, I have a friend who has property on the same road as you up there in the corner of the state, beatiful area. Your address rang a bell when I was on your web site a few months back. We come up once or twice a year to play.
I always appreciate the help I get from this site. I am a totally green newbie flogging along in the dark. Any guidance I can get is appreciated.
Ty
Flyhity@msn.com
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