hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island
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| 10/04/2006 8:11 AM |
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I train alone the vast majority of the time. I think I need to get a winger or a launcher or something to throw for me-I can't throw far enough for the pup anymore, and he needs to get used to marks "falling from the sky" instead of me throwing them...
What would be all of your first choice if you were in my situation? I don't know much about all this equipment. Is there anything that can be set up so you don't have to move it after every throw? Can something that can throw more than once be set not to throw to the same place? Do I need more than one thing?
HELP!  Thanks!
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bubulkaj Moderator
Blue Springs, Missouri
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| 10/04/2006 9:38 AM |
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It all boils down to how much money you want to spend. I also train alone a lot and still dont have what I really want or need. I do have a couple of reomote (gunners up like) wingers but they can be time consuming to set up and have to be reloaded each time. They are great for real ducks and fire a 209 primer etc.
When Brady was just a pup I bought a dummy launcher (you know the kind that use the 22 blanks) and I think that worked pretty well to get him used to the sound of gunfire and gave me the ability to send some marks out there a ways. Before he was steady I would stake him out, walk away from him fire the dummy and then walk back to release him. The lead was short on the stake but enough that he would sometimes hit the end of it if he was not steady and it would spin him. He quickly learned to sit and wait for me to release him. Make sure you get the one with the shoulder stock, it will save your hands. You might want to start with something like this first before jumping in with both feet for anything else.
If money is not an issue, bumper boys 4 shooter ($862 with electronics) or the etch marc thunderbird ($799 with out electronics) are your best bet. With the bumper boy I believe you can aim the launchers in opposite directions and get a differnt pattern. It looks to me that the etch marc is unidirectional. although they do make some sort of swivel platform for it. Julie uses a thunderbird and can tell you the pros and cons of them. I am sure there are a lot of other folks on this forum who can give you insight in to the bumper boys. Me, I cant afford either yet but if I was going to buy one I think I am leaning toward the bumper boy.
Good luck in your training.
Joe |
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bsmiley
Fishers Indiana
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| 10/04/2006 10:03 AM |
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Ditto Joe - Check out the Bumper Boy 22cal. I train alone a great deal simply due to my own time contstraints. I do group train enough to have been exposed to several different launcher styles.
First I would agree to invest in launchers early. I could have brought Cody's marking out much faster had I gone with lauchers earlier. At the time, though, I thought I was simply training an upland gun-dog.
Zeke once showed me some wingers he made himself that work well. I personally purchased the Gunners-Up with Dogtra electronics. These have been very reliable rain or shine. They throw a nice arc and give you the flexibility of using ducks also. Down side is that they are 5.5 ft. long folded and only have one throw before needing reloaded. Dogtra electronics also need an add-on speaker to hear the duck call when you get to throwing 200-300 yard marks.
I am not a fan of the propane launchers as I have seen these leak/have o-ring issues after heavy use. Plus you need to drag tanks around.
My next purchase will be the Bumper Boy. They are available from 2-12 bumper models and use varying 22 cal loads to determine launch distance. They are more expensive than a base winger but come with the electronics. You have some adjustment on the direction of each bumper and the whole unit is pretty small. The people I know using these love them and indicate they have been reliable.
For now, I'm still using the winger. Put dog on sit, walk out and reload launchers. Dog needs the sit drill, Bruce needs the exersize
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Cody, 2XGMPR, MH
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KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL
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| 10/04/2006 11:59 AM |
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My pups see remote wingers early on. I like to throw real birds later and bumpers early. So even though wingers require more leg work, in the long run there is more flexibility with wingers. Here's a link to some remote winger work done with my pups.
http://www.kwicklabs.com/WingersandPuppies.htm |
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II)
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Rob G
Cedaredge, CO
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| 10/04/2006 12:32 PM |
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Hooligan,
I too train mostly alone. This past spring I realized that I needed something to help stretch out my marks.
I bought two (2) Zinger Winger II's and I use the Dogtra remote releases (RRD models). I have been extremely pleased with them.
The RRD model release sounds like a duck call when you push the locate button and then fires a 209 primer upon release. I have thrown fresh killed pheasants and chukar as well as Dokken's and I have been very pleased with the distances that they are thrown.
The down side is that they are pretty pricey little units, but the upside is that I am now able to throw long marks and doubles by myself.
Rob
P.S. I should mention that each launcher is only good for one throw before I have to walk back out to it's location and "re-load" it. Sometimes I load up both launchers and do two singles. |
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wdlfbio
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| 10/05/2006 9:19 PM |
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Hooligan,
Go to the link Kwick provided. He has a very clean set of very reliable remote wingers and electronics that will make your life easy for very little cash! Search his site and I'm sure you'll find the blueprints. |
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KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL
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| 10/06/2006 10:09 AM |
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Here's the link to the Kwick Mini-My-Wingers. 
http://www.kwicklabs.com/Winger%20Photogallery.htm |
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II)
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Zeke
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| 10/07/2006 4:17 AM |
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I have made the Kwick Launchers and they work great. I made mine longer to throw longer and higher marks, and i am glad that I did that. On the downside, they are heavier and bigger to take afield, but I'm a "tough guy." I will say that they have made all the difference in our training.
The only downside and possible advantage to the bird boys for me is that sometimes Zeke will get antcy at the line. My correction for that is too not let him retrieve when he creeps. He creeps, I say, "uggh" followed by a kennel command, back in the truck he goes. You can imagine, I then have to walk out and reset the launcher 100- 20o yards away, at least I get in shape. If I had a bird boy, I would put him back in the truck for a few minutes, heel to the line, then try again.
Even with this, I wouldn't trade my Kwick wingers for anything, but I may add a BB later on for that reason.
Zeke |
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MPR Zeke the Wonder Dog HRCH
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KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL
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| 10/07/2006 6:56 AM |
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The nice thing about the regular size Kwick Mini-My-Wingers is they are easy to carry and shift around. Last week, I was training with one other person. They have a kick winger which throws a huge mark. The two of us ran five dogs on some cheating singles with the Kwick wingers and then all five dogs did a challenging triple.
Mike's is right about having to walk a lot, but there is something else that really is helping out. I'd been searching for reasons and the right price to buy an ATV. The reasons for it were 1) less walking, 2) time conservation, 3) a device to do "roading" right (not free running), 3) I'm not a "spring chicken" anymore, 4) a friend of mine convinced me that field hunting for ducks and geese is much more effective around here (ATV is a must) and 5) I somehow managed to ask my wife at just the right time and got a surprising OK. 
Here's a picture of the triple we set-up. With the ATV, I buzzed out and reloaded the two Kwick Wingers on the right and each of us took turns with the long kick winger on the left. Note the strategically placed marks on the right - nice factors and the road made things go even quicker. 
On another note the Kwick Wingers were inexpensive to make, but the ATV (even though it was on sale) is a "pricey" piece of training equipment. The ATV and size of the wingers allows me to reach out and pick one up without breaking it down and zip it to the next location so re-birding, re-loading and new set-ups are a snap. The smaller wingers stack nicely on the front rack of the ATV and I will soon have total of six Kwick Wingers (four now).
The only real issue with having multiple wingers is sometimes I forget which one is where and push the wrong button.  |
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II)
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hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island
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| 10/07/2006 8:53 AM |
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Thanks for all the feedback!
Kwick, I am almost completely inept at building things, but thanks for the link! My "construction" projects usually involve duct tape and hay twine...
I am leaning toward a launcher instead of a winger, for the following reasons. While I appreciate and expect to do the "dog sit drill while reloading", right now Churchill seems to need a shorter time span of steady, with me there for corrections and to be able to release him as soon as he is correct. He is just 5 months old, and has lots of desire-but he is not ready to wait while I go out and reset something and come back. I would have to tie him, and I think it would create breaking and whining problems to expect that now. Later, yes! I realize I can't use real birds with it-but I can save that for when I have help.
Joe, I do have a retriever-r-trainer with a shoulder stock. We use that when Bob is around to shoot it for me, and I can steady the pup. Churchill thinks that is a great game. It throws the bumper really far, so he is tired out after a few in a row. I have found that I get the best use of it when we alternate with another dog-the competition really fires him up to do a good job, and he can have a bit of a rest in between.
I am thinking about a 2-shooter, and maybe a second 2-shooter add-on, instead of a 4-shooter. I need to find out how the add-on works-whether it can be in a different place and is only "adding" to the remote, or if it needs to be attached physically to the first unit. I think two would be better for varying where the marks come from. I also like that the launchers seem to be easier to move around and lighter weight than the wingers. Also, if I am buying these things and not making them, two wingers and their electronics seem to cost almost as much as a 2-shooter launcher.
Please keep the suggestions and feedback coming-I need all the help I can get! 
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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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Rob G
Cedaredge, CO
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| 10/07/2006 10:28 AM |
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Hooligan,
Teaching the sit drill while going out to "re-load" is hard to do, considering that you may be over 100 yards away with little means to reinforce if necessary.
When I go out to re-load my launcher, I usually put Maverick back in his kennel (in my truck bed), which is where he would be during a hunt test while waiting his turn.
When I am re-loaded, I go to his kennel and let him out and force him to come to the line under control. I feel that this most closely resembles a test scenerio. Rather than having him do a remote sit for that long or staking him out.
However, each of us must do what works best for us. Good luck. I'm sure you will instantly see the benefits of having something to fire distant marks.
Rob |
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Home of:
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oakcreeklabs
Moundridge Kansas
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| 10/07/2006 6:46 PM |
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| Kwick, how do you set off the launcher. I like the set up, just haven't put the full grasp on how it really works. DO you have a remote in your hand or something? |
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KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL
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| 10/07/2006 10:11 PM |
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| The electronics consist of a single four button transmitter which can send a signal to each receiver. Push a button and the appropriate receiver activates a car door actuator which pulls a wire attached to the trigger release. |
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II)
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Zeke
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| 10/08/2006 3:38 AM |
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Kwick's electronics are extremely easy to work with, in fact, I often swing & shoot a gun while simultaneously launching wingers. When upland training, I pull off the electronics and put them on a "dreaded" upland bird launcher.
Zeke |
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MPR Zeke the Wonder Dog HRCH
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Doc_E
N.E. WA state
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| 10/08/2006 6:37 AM |
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I don't have the time (or ability) to build stuff, so I use the Dogtra Box Launchers. I have 4 of them. They have a tone function, so you can always know which one is going to launch. The springs are adjustable, so you can set them up to toss shorties or longies. They will throw a bumper a long distance, and even a heavy old waterlogged duck will get thrown at pretty good distance and height.
They are great for launching live birds.
The 4 launchers + transmitter were about $1000.
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Doc E and Cujo Casey boy. |
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KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL
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| 10/08/2006 8:27 AM |
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| Hooligan, I had a friend that was rather dubious at first. He walked through the construction step by step and had no issues that couldn't be sorted out. If you work with the "little bites" mind-set and take your time, it is a very rewarding experience. I would be glad to help you "git 'er dun". Building the PVC structure is fun because you can correct things easily. Adding the hardware is very simple, and the electronics are only difficult because of the word "electronics". It is almost a "plug and play" set-up when someone is available to walk you through it. |
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II)
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"Excellence is Expected" |
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wdlfbio
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| 10/08/2006 10:43 PM |
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Jim,
I painted the tops of all my wingers to match the button color on the remote. For the duble launchers. I have matching colored flagging crimped to an aligator clip. This gets clipped to the brish above the launcher. It's pretty easy to match green to green, orange to orange, etc  |
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KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL
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| 10/09/2006 2:53 PM |
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| Ah, to be young again and have decent vision. Besides the wingers are usually far away and hidden behind stickmen. Wait........I could spray their heads different colors. |
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II)
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wdlfbio
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| 10/09/2006 8:41 PM |
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| C'mon Jim. don't tell me you can't see 50 yards anymore |
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