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Subject: Dominance / Aggression

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Roscoe

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04/29/2006 5:33 AM	Alert
I have a ylm pup that is 13 months old now. We are able to train most everyday. Usually we have a 10 - 20 minute OB sessions daily and later do some retrieving. We are also able to walk at least a few times a week. We followed Julie's book until we started to get to some of the more in depth retrieving and have been following Mike Lardy since then. The pup has been CC ala Lardy. Further, we meet with a training group once a week. The pup has been socialized with people and other dogs. He has lots of drive and is developing into a great retriever. Now for the issue. The dog is definitely a dominant dog. Walking at heel can be a major ordeal with the dog almost insisting he has to walk a half step ahead of me. It seems that no amount of pressure or correction will make him submit to the position I want him to be at. During OB I use the heeling stick, e collar and pinch collar for pressure. I've shown him the appropriate position and used what I believe to be a judicial amount of force and praise for correction after teaching. Some sessions are better than others, but the following session is often like we're starting over with the dominance thing. I've tried various direct and indirect means during the sessions. Further he has started to "Blow me off" on the here command at times when we are not in a training mode. In a formal OB session, from a remote sit, he is 100% and charges hard to get back to me. On our walks he is 100% when I recall him and he sits quickly to the verbal command or whistle. He is a direct opposite when there is another dog in the area and sometimes people. He has never been aggressive towards people, but has an unbelievable drive to make sure every dog knows he is dominant. He is corrected every time he displays the dominant behavior. I have never used the collar to burn him off of another dog, but have given him correction to try to refocus him before it gets to that point. During these periods it is as if the collar is only an annoyance no matter what the intensity or length of stimulation. Yesterday he tried to exert his dominance over an intact female who snapped at him and the fight started. We were able to separate the two without any injuries to us or the dogs. The female settled very quickly. I went into formal OB with him in a fairly stern manner trying to get him under control, however, he tried to get back at her several times despite my corrections with the choke chain and leash. As a side note, we live in Alaska. We have moose encounters frequently on our walks. He absolutely hates moose and will bark, growl at and attempt to chase them. Most times I am able to see the moose before him and can divert. The times he has noticed them first I have always been able to call him off of them. So anyway, I'm asking for thoughts and feelings from some of you experienced guys. The dog is from a good breeding and a reputable breeder. I have tried to be very consistent with my standards and methods, but I'm at a loss. There is no way this dog is going to be able to be around other dogs at any kind of test, or hunt for that matter, until I can get him under control. I don't mind using the appropriate amount of force needed, but obviously don't want to use to much and cause lasting issues. Thanks in advance, Kelly

bubulkaj Moderator
Blue Springs, Missouri

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04/30/2006 8:19 PM	Alert
Roscoe, I had very similar problmes with heel and here as you are describing with my male at that age. I could do an OB drill in the yard and he was 100% but get him in the field with distractions and add distance and he was not. Heel was a problem with him on walks, exactly like you described. The wife had been walking him a lot and would try to enforce the correct heel position. Upon the command he would jump back in to the correct heel position but two steps later he was out in front again. I fixed the heel issue by teaching him that heel meant he needed to focus on me and nothing else. He had to assume the heel position and remain in that position until I told him other wise. What I did was basically put him at heel and start to walk and then periodically change direction, sharp 90deg turns, left and right, abrupt 180deg turns,sometimes turning 360deg around pivoting on my inside foot. At first I had to use the lead and verbal heel command to help him maintain the heel position. (I am sure the neighbors thought I was crazy) He quickly learned to focus on me, anticipatedth e turns and started turning with me to avoid the leash tug. After a few sessions of this his heeling was 10 times better. He learned to focus on me and his position to me instead of just jumping back to a position upon the command. Sounds to me like you are doing the right thing with your here problems. Just stay consistent, demand he come to you when you give the here command and he will learn that distractions are no reason to disregard your commands. I think he is just being a teenager and testing your limits a little. Stay strong and make him comply and you will be ok. Joe

Roscoe

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04/30/2006 9:22 PM	Alert
Joe, I appreciate the response. Sometimes a little reassurance goes a long ways for us newbies. I'll keep plugging away and hope the consistency will prevail in the long run. Thanks again, Kelly

bubulkaj Moderator
Blue Springs, Missouri

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05/01/2006 8:35 AM	Alert
Roscoe, I know how you feel. It will all come together and that is what this forum is about. Joe

Doc_E
N.E. WA state

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05/01/2006 8:40 AM	Alert
I don't know what the big time trainers will think of this. I didn't use very much at all of Dobbs stuff, but I did use the Dobbs method of CC for Heel. Have your ecollar set at a low (but very uncomfortable level). When the dog gets out of your desired range, press constant stimulation, command HEEL...........as soon as the dog is where you want it, release the button. Later on, don't even use the HEEL command -- just the constant stimulation until the dog is in the proper place. .

Doc E and Cujo Casey boy.

tigerliberty
Dundee Michigan

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05/01/2006 10:18 AM	Alert
As soon as the dog takes the lead I spin around 180, give the dog a pop with the leash or stimulation with the collar(depending at the level the dog is at) and walk the other way, repeating as needed. As far as the aggression goes, i show the dog that i am the boss, i am the dominate one and i make sure he 100% knows any correction is from me(in other words i will not use the e-collar here), he growls i pin him down on his back and give a firm no until he quits, I treat it just like if he was "out of line" in the pack. If all else fails just start running him with chessies he will learn his roll. kidding on the last part.

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Roscoe

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05/03/2006 12:20 PM	Alert
I appreciate all the suggestions. We'll keep plugging away. I think the dog has the potential to be a pretty good dog in the field. I train regularly with a trainer in the area (that runs Chessies - Tiger ) she said his drive makes him a handful, but I should be pretty experienced by the time he's done. Thanks again, Kelly

Jay
Topeka, KS Go GORILLAS!!

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05/03/2006 11:26 PM	Alert
I did the same as Joe, but with a lot of backward heeling as well. Several sessions of 180's and backwards heeling made mine pay a lot more attention to me. Good luck! Jay

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Zeke

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05/05/2006 10:54 AM	Alert
Have you ever watched the Dog Whisperer on National Geographic Channel? I have learned alot from him, and he specializes in teaching people how to become the pack leader so that they can control dominant/aggressive dogs. Through some very basic concepts, he quickly asserts himself as the pack leader, which is exactly what it sounds like you need help with. Zeke

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Roscoe

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05/07/2006 3:20 PM	Alert
Thanks for the new posts. I have watched the Dog Whisperer on different occassions. The more I study the issue it seems the dominance and aggression issues may be a youngster learning his place in life. With other dogs he tries to assume that dominant role and then defends himself when challenged. I do not think he is trying to be dominant with me the more I think about it. I think the heeling issue is probably due to his drive and puppyhood. The trick I'm trying to figure out is how to temper and build his work ethic without crushing his drive. We're able to do a little formal OB most everyday and also "walk" or do some formal retrieving. I have started working of the "backwards heel." I'm trying to be quicker with my corrections and being as consistent as I possibly can. Also, I plan to do more formal OB with other dogs in close proximity during our training group sessions. Anyway, I appreciate the info and we'll keep plugging away. Hopefully a photo is attached.

Zeke

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05/08/2006 5:21 PM	Alert
It looks like that dog "loves to go!" Cool picture, I hope everything works out for the both of you. After working with a few dogs over the weekend, the importance of solid OB cannot be overstated. Additionally, working on OB with a variety of distractions in a variety of different places can really help as well. Zeke

MPR Zeke the Wonder Dog HRCH www.freewebs.com/zekethewonderdog PR Director of the Michigan Mafia MM Run-N-Gun Asssociation

Roscoe

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05/08/2006 8:39 PM	Alert
Yeah - He likes to go. Lots of drive, hopefully we can help him channel it. His main distraction problem seems to be other dogs.

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