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Subject: Socializing/obedience

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killerloop
MinneSNOWta

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03/17/2006 10:59 AM	Alert
Let me start by saying, I do not even have my puppy yet, and will not until fall/winter. (hopefully). I have been asking you folks opinions and experiences you've had. I've recieved a fountain of information (thanks)!! My pup/dog is going to be hunting pheasants/waterfowl, and be a family dog AFTER that. Not a robot but somewhere in between and hunting machine and a kid tolorating/ patient dog. The question I have now is, how do you establish a "leader of the pack", handler, master, or whatever terminolgy suites you, and still have pup PLAY with kids. I'm struggling on the fact that, I would think there would be misunderstandings or misleading actions when exposed to my girls. Meaning do my girls need rules b4 exposing this pup to them if so what. I just can't help but believe, there must be some ground rules to avoid miscomunication and or teaching bad habits. (ok when the girls are around but not ok when I'm around), where's the separation? I've read The pointing Retriever and gathered alot of info, now reading 10- minute retriver and smarkworks and some Lardy articles.. Retriever Journel and Gun Dogs. I believe I can now at least make some sort of educated decisions, but not to large of ones. I have some hunting buds and they all have dogs that I thought b4 reading, were trained well, but after what I've learned or should I say READ. They have only rounded second base. Much more work and time needs to be given. In a nut shell, what role or position should my kids (age 6 and 9) be in, when bringing a WORKING dog into my family. I've got the girlfriend reading these books after I finish, she a trooper.. Just the kid thing is what I'm battling. Any advice would be greatly appriecated..

IA Hunter

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03/17/2006 1:31 PM	Alert
It is a great question Killerloop, and I am curious to hear what the more experienced PL people have to say. I am going through the issue right now. My PL puppy is 4 months old, and I have 4 kids (4, 6, 10, and 12) that love to play with her. Whenever I am training with her, which right now consists only of a daily walk in the woods and periodic exposure to quail, the kids do not come along. Only me and the pup. When they are playing with her, they are allowed to romp with her and run with her, but they cannot let her nip at them and they cannot give her commands, like "sit". When they are with her and she does something undesirable, they tell her "no" in a firm voice, although it certainly does not have the same effect as when I say it. If she persists in doing the undesirable behavior, they put her in her kennel until a later time. The "sit" command is the most interesting thing I have observed. I have not even begun to train Abbey to sit, but I think the kids think that all dogs are born knowing that command. I had not even had the pup home a couple of days and they were telling her to sit. They learned quickly that there was no point in them saying it. From purely a training perspective, I have no doubt that it would be easier if it were just me and the dog. The reality, though, is that the kids are a part of the family and so is the dog, so they are allowed and even encouraged to play with her whenever they can. They just have a few guidelines of what they can and cannot do with the dog. Incidentally, the same goes for my wife. Abbey definitely does not listen to my wife as well as she listens to me. Joe

2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!

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03/17/2006 1:58 PM	Alert
'Incidentally, the same goes for my wife. Abbey definitely does not listen to my wife as well as she listens to me.' IAH- Ah-The real question is -who listens to ya better-The dog or the wife?? HA- I bet we all know the answer

Wildflugel
Ravenna, NE

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03/17/2006 2:12 PM	Alert
Killerloop: I prepared an article that I give to my new puppy owners that outlines the various stages of canine development and canine behavior in general. It is too long to post here, but if you would give me your email address I will send you a copy. You can PM me at Wildflugel

Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail.

Jere

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03/17/2006 2:21 PM	Alert
Jill, your PM didn't come through in your post... I'd like to see that article. You may have my email, but if not its available through my profile. Did you ever get those articles on scent I sent and put up on the web? Jere

IA Hunter

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03/17/2006 2:24 PM	Alert
No comment on who listens better; my wife reads this forum, too! I'd tell you to PM me for the answer, but she reads my e-mail too. Let's just say that for 4 months old, Abbey listens very well, relatively speaking!

Wildflugel
Ravenna, NE

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03/17/2006 5:02 PM	Alert
Jere: After all kinds of computer problems (caused by a virus I got from a web card someone sent me) I was finally able to open and retrieve the scent articles, THANKS. Actually I ended up getting a new computer. I had planned on doing it anyway, the virus just sped things along. I am unable to attach a file by hitting reply. If you would send me your email address (I no longer have the messages you sent transmitting the articles) I will send you the article tonight. Looks like you will have to go to my profile and get onto my web site for my email address. When I try to post the address it comes up blank. Sorry. Wildflugel

Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail.

LuvToHunt
Upstate NY

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03/19/2006 2:26 PM	Alert
When I started reading up on PL I was going nuts. It seamed we couldn't do anything that we would do with a " Normal " dog. Pearl came into the house and I was doing more yelling at the kids, "Don't do this to her, don't say that to her, don’t play with her like that! " It wasn't working. It became more of a problem then fun. Kids didn't know what to do or how to act. Pearl wasn't getting the loving she needed. The first week was pure hell. I started to regret this wonderful gift. Then I said to heck with that! I'm going to raise her like all of my other wonderful dogs. I believe this way, we are a pack and she's one of the pups. I have always done this little thing that has worked on every dog I have owned, Even the alpha dogs. I get down after the dog has been in the house a bit. When it starts to get aggressive I jump on the dog and pretend to be an alpha male dog. I don't bite The dog but growl at its neck I do this until the dog submits. When the dog eats I get right down in the bowl with then. It’s a nature thing that has really always worked. If the big dog is the boss and everybody knows that she will place her self with everybody else just like nature .She sees me yell at the other pups when they do wrong. She sees the mommy dog boss the pups around and make the big dog happy. It is working for us. She has become a great addition to the family. I feel the dog has to be a family member first. Because IF she turns out not to a good hunting dog. She will still be apart of the family. Nothing turns my gut more then seeing a dog chained out. The dog didn't work Out as whatever the owner had intended the pup for. Love that pup she/he will learn. If a dog can know the difference in hand movements to, a cast whistle back or a silent back and what they mean that dog can know when playing in house and hunting. I'm not saying this is the way for everybody but this is how I feel about our dog. When we relaxed and didn't get so worried about doing the wrong thing things really started to flow. Her OB is working great and she's coming along just great. I have found that some things work great. My wife and I didn't agree with "CRATE" time. I reluctantly started working with it and that down time has become a wonderful tool. Pearl has responded to it in a major way. Our training sessions have been more productive and she has become a better family dog because of it. She spends all night in the crate and is out all day in the house. My wife puts her in about an hour before I get home after my morning run. I then get that excited pup to train with when were done I put her back in the crate to " think " on what we just did. An hour or so later she's out until bedtime. The family gets to play with her all that time. Imp not sure what the real professional trainers would think of this but its working for us.

Adversity Reveals Genius ,Prosperity conceals it . Horace

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