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Tom

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03/09/2006 10:36 AM	Alert
I have a year and a half-old black PL. I have been whoa training him for the past month, following the Knutson's book. When I tell him to whoa, he will now lock up about 85 % of the time. The other 15 % of the time he looks confused and guiltily starts to sit. I know that I have to keep at it until he is at %100. My question is this: seven weeks from now, I am planning to take him to a game preserve to get him more exposure to live birds. Assuming that he locks up on point, and I tell him "whoa," how do I enforce it? Should I use a check cord, or should I personally run up to him and keep him there? I think if I use a check cord on him, if anything, he is likely to sit in response. I know all about using a 55 gallon drum to force train him whoa, but there is no way that I can get live training birds where I live, so the hunting preserve will be the first real exposure of birds for Trigger while he is being told to "whoa." I just don't have confidence that when he sees birds his excitement won't get the better of him. People say not to shoot the bird if the dog breaks, but I am skeptical that Trigger would have his feelings hurt -- he just loves to find the birds even if he doesn't get the bonus of a shot and a retrieve.

LuckyNash
Brigham, Utah

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03/09/2006 11:44 AM	Alert
Tom, It sounds like you are off to a good start. Work closer to the dog on whoa training, I assume that when you give him the whoa command he does well at first and then as the session continues he starts to get a little stressed and wants to sit. Stand close to the dog, give the command and stick your hand under his belly, rub it a little, keep him happy and standing. I also know some people will tap the front of the dogs knee with their foot if they are heavy sitters. Work close and gradually increase the distance over time. Don’t give him the opportunity to sit. If your going to take him hunting and the training isn’t complete. Expect a few things to happen that you will have no control over. You most likely will not be in a position to run up and hold the dog or restrain him from bumping birds. Hunting is an uncontrollable environment and weird things happen. If you paid good money for the birds, and the birds are few and far between, take advantage of the opportunity and shoot them. Have fun with it. Although, some people will disagree with that last sentence. Whatever does happen, take it for what it is and go back to the training. Mistakes won’t ruin the dog, constant mistakes will just make it more difficult to correct.

Jay
Topeka, KS Go GORILLAS!!

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03/10/2006 11:20 AM	Alert
First thing first, I know nothing, so take that into account. How do you mean that you've worked him on whoa? Are you just using a place board, barrel, rope around the waist, etc. How long have you made him stand, and under what distractions. Have you done any corrections for not stopping, or moving before released? Maybe this will give some others (myself included) a better idea of what you are up against. As far as whoaing on birds, I personally hate this. In my eyes, that is how you get a dog to stand game, not point. This is however a touchy subject, so see it as you will. I started out whoaing on birds, and thought that this is how it was done, but then "I seen da light". Joe (bubla somethin' or other) started a thread a little while back very similar to this. His dog may be a little different, but it may help just the same. Jay

There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness. GMPR APR HR Tornado Allie of Blk Forest

2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!

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03/10/2006 12:46 PM	Alert
Jay- I see pushups in your future! HA!! Tom- The name is Joe Bubulkaj who is one of the APLA board members and also who will be judging JAY in a couple weeks when he donates his entrance fee, err i mean runs his dog in the Mo tests

Jay
Topeka, KS Go GORILLAS!!

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03/10/2006 1:12 PM	Alert
Oops, I forgot! How easily my mind slips these days. I must be getting old. 1, 2, 3,,,,,,,,,,,,,,444444444444,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,555555555555, uhhhh! Jay

There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness. GMPR APR HR Tornado Allie of Blk Forest

bubulkaj Moderator
Blue Springs, Missouri

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03/10/2006 8:29 PM	Alert
None of you guys can spell! It is Bubulka Lets say it together.........Bu----Bulk---a . Very good class! Jay, I really hope you are working out.

Doc_E
N.E. WA state

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03/10/2006 8:44 PM	Alert
Have you got your dog to the point yet where when the dog is on WHOA (on the place board), that you can pull (pulling the dog forward) on the leash and have the dog 'pull back' hard in order to keep you from moving him? That's the best way to "proof" WHOA that I know of. .

Doc E and Cujo Casey boy.

2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!

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03/10/2006 8:51 PM	Alert
Joe- I know-But if Tom was going to do a search as suggested by Jay i figured he needed to use your call sign with the "j" at the end but I sure worded it wrong.. Hope you guys have a good training day tomorrow! Sure is gonna be hot!

CPK
Eminence,In

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03/11/2006 11:13 AM	Alert
Tom,,I see in your post that you said "this will be the first real bird contact for trigger" ? Regardless of his age 8 wks,2yrs you have to build from the ground up,so if he has'nt actually been on birds before? dont worry or use any 'control commands" He needs to build up his birdiness,desire and drive first. The control commands WILL keep him from hunting IF done before his bird work. Then back to the "whoa" comments,its is the cornerstone to ALL POINTING BREEDS,EPs,ESs,DDs,Brittanies and PLs need to be taught this command,there are exceptions but NOT the norm.Ive owned and hunted with about every pointing breed out there,if not taught "whoa" they all do the same,point,creep up,and flush...Like I said,its not every dog,but 99% will if not "whoa" broke.. Now if your just trying to get an APLA "CPR" title,where they only have to point for 5 seconds,probaly dont have to teach "whoa" as any well bred 7 wk old puppy will hold that long,but if your after a real upland pointing dog,one that actually ranges out and looks for birds where birds actually hide,then "whoa" is a must, Its not a command that you keep saying for your dogs life,its something you teach him to do once he finds bird scent,at some point in training you never have to say it again...Good luck to you..

SEMPER-FI Dont be a Liberal

CPK
Eminence,In

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03/11/2006 11:17 AM	Alert
Hey guys,why is'nt there an edit button on here ? Tom..Doc made a great statement above,I also get one one point and go up behind him and push him forward,they 99% of the time will push back on you,Knowing not to move,I pull birds out of the bird bag and toss them around him too,

SEMPER-FI Dont be a Liberal

Doc_E
N.E. WA state

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03/11/2006 1:51 PM	Alert
Posted By CPK on 03/11/2006 11:17 AM 1. Hey guys,why is'nt there an edit button on here ? Tom.. 2. Doc made a great statement above 1. There is 2. Of course -- did you expect anything different .

Doc E and Cujo Casey boy.

CPK
Eminence,In

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03/11/2006 2:04 PM	Alert
1.) I dont see it,I see a quote,reply and alert. 2.) no I did'nt Doc...

SEMPER-FI Dont be a Liberal

Doc_E
N.E. WA state

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03/11/2006 6:10 PM	Alert
Look along the "date line" (straight to the right of your "screen name"). It goes.....................Edit.........Quote.........Reply.........Alert .

Doc E and Cujo Casey boy.

killerloop
MinneSNOWta

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03/11/2006 6:23 PM	Alert
I have no edit either, prob cause newbie! Looks like it takes an act of congress to get the to activate the gun dog site, I emailed labman bigger then Dallas with no fix!

killerloop
MinneSNOWta

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03/11/2006 6:24 PM	Alert
oh, and no sticky either.

bubulkaj Moderator
Blue Springs, Missouri

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03/11/2006 6:45 PM	Alert
Are you sure you dont see edit Killer? Look again! I bet you see it now. Dont plan on getting sticky privileges anytime soon. That is a mod only function. Joe

Doc_E
N.E. WA state

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03/11/2006 6:50 PM	Alert
Killer, Do you see the date (you know where it says 03/11/06) Find the date and look strainght --------------->------------------------------>------------------------------------------->---------------------------------------->

Doc E and Cujo Casey boy.

killerloop
MinneSNOWta

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03/11/2006 7:41 PM	Alert
Nope,,, it says Quote, reply, alert...... Shouldn't the edit be b4 the word quote??? either way nothing there!

bubulkaj Moderator
Blue Springs, Missouri

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03/11/2006 9:06 PM	Alert
Try this, cover your right eye with your left hand. Now look. Do you see it?

2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!

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03/11/2006 9:12 PM	Alert
You only get to edit YOUR post and you must be logged in also. The edit fcn will appear only in the header of your post.

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Forums > American Pointing Labrador Association > Training > Whoa Training Applied