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Author Messages Oldest First Newest First Liv2Hnt Overland Park, KS Advanced Online Status: Posts:179 09/18/2007 7:56 AM Alert  I was working my 1.4 year old pup this weekend on doubles off the bb launcher. One single across a strip pit channel and the other into  some reeds in the pit. My pup got tangled in some old fishing line on the way in from the mark, and was dragging a large mess of it with some moss and it scared the heck out of him.  I got him settled and he returned to heel and delivered the bumper and I removed the line. Thinking it would be the end of it.  We re ran the mark as he did not nail the second bird after his fishing line incident.  The first mark was the one where he was tangled and he marked both birds and went to pick up the first bird, but threw on the brakes at the point where he had previously encountered the fishing line.  He would not enter the water at that point.  I walked over to him, to the water and resent him.(had to get the bumper back)  I moved the mark, but he continued to exhibit this wary behaviour the entire session.  This was Sunday and it continued in our session yesterday when we were working blinds and apparently there was a piece of clear trash in the field that he stoped on a blind and barked at until I got his attention and he returned.  I heeled him over to the trash piece, around it, picked it up and let him smell it, put it back down and heeled him around it, but you would think it was a Tiger the way he is acting.  Sorry for the long description, but I am really at a loss as to what to do in a training session when something like this happens.  Push through?  put the dog up for the day?  Is this more something to do with age?  My pup is a very confident hard running dog and it was really odd to see him acting in such a manner.  Thoughts? Proud Owner of: MPR HR McNally's Right Stuff Ridley Rob G Cedaredge, CO Master Online Status: Posts:559 09/18/2007 3:34 PM Alert  As soon as I see a session is heading in the wrong direction (either due to the dog or me), I try to SIMPLIFY the drill and create some sort of a successful conclusion. Even if it were very small, I try to give the dog some level of confidence leave on an upturned note. Rob Home of: CPR Bearpoint's Top Gun "Maverick" PRG's Hunter's Lullaby "Cricket" CPR Sam's Jumpin Jack Flash "Jack" KwickLabs Roscoe, IL Master Online Status: Posts:679 09/24/2007 6:26 AM Alert  This is a tough call because so much depends on the drive and temperment of the young dog. However, any bad experience which is caused by fear will have a lasting effect. How long it lasts depends on the pup. I've always believed that one "mistake" in training requires doing it correctly at least 10 times. Then again a "fear event" isn't just a confusion issue. As long as it doesn't happen again, the pup will begin to forget about it. Over time it usually disappears. That being said, I happen to have a dog that was very soft as a pup. When he was about 4-5 months old his drive to retrieve was exceptional. One day in the early spring we were doing a few water retrieves on a small pond that was out of its banks. As he snatched a bumper out of the water near the far bank a large "mat" of cattails fell over on him and he could not "escape" from it. The mat clung to his back, pushed him down into the water and literally "attacked" him. In full blown panic, he finally "got away" and was in total "spooked mode". He would not even go near the water. I finally got him to do a few fun bumpers on land. I continued to throw them and distract his mind about the "horror in the water". After about fifteen minutes (seemed longer) he was given a fun bumper that just barely went into the water (about two feet). His normal airborne entry was now a slow slink, tip toe reach for the bumper. We quit and went home. For MONTHS afterwards any water retrieve had him continuously glancing all about on the way out and back with water retrieves. I was terribly disappointed and concerned that this would never go away. At the pond where "IT" happened, the area of the scare lasted for over a year. He is now almost four years old, and his water entry is super. However, every once in awhile (not very often) when something suddenly just doesn't look right on the surface of the water, he'll give that nervous, little "weirded" out glance. Temper this with the facts that Kooly was an extremely soft pup and every dog is different. Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II) ---------------------------------- "Excellence is Expected" Liv2Hnt Overland Park, KS Advanced Online Status: Posts:179 09/24/2007 12:59 PM Alert  Kwik, Thanks for the response. This has been pretty frustrating. The phobia is not keeping him from making retrieves, but any piece of clear plastic trash fluttering on the ground will cause him to bend his line a half foot or so around it and he will warily return, eyeing the trash the entire time. This is not a soft pup, its just so odd to see this behavior. Thanks for all your input on this site. I regularly visit your website. Youre living my dream when I get retired and fool around with dogs/guns on a full time basis. Proud Owner of: MPR HR McNally's Right Stuff Ridley KwickLabs Roscoe, IL Master Online Status: Posts:679 09/24/2007 3:13 PM Alert  Experience will help. Here's a funny story about dealing with Kooly's water "spook mode". One spring it was time to run him in his first AKC hunt test. It was my home club's test. The usual routine was Senior tests were run at Hook Lake. This old, bog lake has a vast amount of huge lily pads. Kooly had never trained there because I had avoided it. I decided he better see this lake before hand and learn to deal with it. I first I threw bumpers into wide open areas of water. He was relaxed and doing well. Finally, I worked up enough nerve to toss one into a huge patch of lily pads. Now you must realize these are giant pads with many 24" in diameter and very difficult to swim through. The wind was calm and Kooly fired off for his retrieve. When he got to the lily pads, they appear to be non-threatening and Kooly entered the patch without hesitating. He was almost to the bumper and in the center of the lily pads, when a big gust of wind from "no where" simultaneously lifted every single pad half up out of the water in a giant "salute" to Kooly. It was if they all said, "Hi, Kooly......you are dead meat." My first thought was that if he could have run on water he would have. It looked like he was going to panic, but for some reason he realized there was no chance to "escape".......he was surrounded. The bumper was close by, and it distracted him just enough. When it was in his mouth, I jumped up and down acting somewhat like an idiot to keep his mind occupied. I think he learned that day the "stuff" in the water was "all bark and no bite". He passed the Senior test the following week. I think what I learned that day was to not avoid or shield the dog in training. Ignore those issues like the trash or cattail mats as if they were no big deal. However, for awhile it will be significant. With time it will fade. Give the dog opportunities to realize it was a one time, rare event that in the grand scheme of things was a long time ago and buried beneath lots of good things. Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II) ---------------------------------- "Excellence is Expected"
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