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oakcreeklabs
Moundridge Kansas

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07/06/2007 8:57 AM	Alert
How about this, if someone is willing to spot me about $20,000 I will put 5 GMPR's onto my place, most would have to come out of my litters. Anyone interested, they can be half owners in all the dogs for their work at writing out checks.

oakcreeklabs
Moundridge Kansas

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07/06/2007 8:58 AM	Alert
Maybe even 6

Black Forest HP

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07/06/2007 9:05 AM	Alert
Leroy Both Oak GMPR is much tougher than running MH because you have to do BOTH retrieving AND upland on the same day. These are two totally different concepts in a dogs mind. If you do not believe this try running a few dogs for a few years then we can discuss it again. In an APLA Masters even you usually have 60 - 80% of the entries are ran by pros. Of the ones that are ran by non-pros, most of them have worked with or have had their dogs trained by pros. That is just the nature of the beast so to speak. GMPR IS NOT EASY.

Shawn Hoover BFK of the High Plains Booker, TX www.blackforesthighplains.com

oakcreeklabs
Moundridge Kansas

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07/06/2007 3:00 PM	Alert
Shawn, I like you. We don't see eye to eye on a lot of things, but oh well. I would go out on a limb and say that if you give me a pup that points and has good drive, 90% of those dogs can become GMPR's with patience and money. Ask a pro to see what % of dogs can make it to SH if given plenty of time and that green money. I know that you have spent a lot of time, energy, and money on attaining what you have. I am not taking that away. But I would argue that anyone with money can get a number of GMPR's in their kennel. In fact if a guy came to me and said that his dog was pointing, had drive, and he was willing to spend what ever; I would say that I could completly break out that dog and then get him to a SH level. Any takers? All it takes to get GMPR's is MONEY!!

Steve W

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07/06/2007 3:23 PM	Alert
Well this one is too hard to ignore. First, Shawn is giving some very “sage” advise for which I am in total agreement. Second, Jake you started this thread, that traveled elsewhere, seeking information on Julie Knutson. From first hand knowledge, let me say that if she has the space you cannot go wrong. And, don’t start somewhere else with the idea of saving money, in my opinion, not good advise. Finally, drawing further on a conclusion stated above, in addition to money I think one might need a dog with natural ability and talent and a capable trainer, amateur or pro. It is a fun and often satisfying game we play, but it is also one that is not quite as easy as it may appear.

Jay
Topeka, KS Go GORILLAS!!

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07/06/2007 4:05 PM	Alert
Just wondering, Oak, how many MPR dogs have you trained? I've seen too many pro and amature dogs fail MPR to think that only money and time stands in the way. Julie has proved more than anyone that she can do it. You asked for some trainer names, and there is a real trend, so that has got to tell you something. Julie is great in my point of view. She's proven that she can do it and I like her style of training much better than most. She does get into the dogs head where a lot of others beat their way in. After seeing the two sides, I'll always go back to her way. Plus, she's one of the nicest people that you'll ever meet, regardless if you have a dog with her or not. If you want the safest bet in CO, then she is your man . Plus, if you decide to go further then her husband can pick it up. He's not too bad of a trainer either. I don't know, my dog always blows up under Shawn. Maybe she thinks that he's ugly. Jay

There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness. GMPR APR HR Tornado Allie of Blk Forest

keskam
Pierce, Colorado

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07/06/2007 5:57 PM	Alert
I agree with Oak and Shawn YES IT DOES TAKE MONEY PERIOD! AND YES IT DOES TAKE A PRO OR ADVISE AND HELP FROM A PRO, To get it done in a favorable time period!! If I was doing this by myself only on my first dog, It might take me 6 to 7 years, with no advice from a pro! With help Jake most likely will be running for his MPR next spring, As for Julie well I believe she is very good at what she does!!! Kevin

HR Rocky Mountain Rosco JH APR HR Lady Satin of Black Forest JH SHR Satin's Jumpin Jedi JH SHR Chelsea Snow Angel JH APR HR KB's Snakey Jake of Poudre River JH SHR KB's It's Showtime of Bearpoint (Star) SHR KB's Loaded To Go Allie KB's Black Diamond Tessa

oakcreeklabs
Moundridge Kansas

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07/06/2007 8:40 PM	Alert
No MPR dogs, however I have trained many labs that could do the upland portion of the MPR test. I have trained dogs that could easily pass the APR part. Anyone that has talked to me knows that I don't do advanced water work. I don't like it, and it is better to send them to someone that has the land, water, time, and help to do it. I prefer the upland part of training, which is why I have broke a lot of dogs steady to wing, shot, and kill without using whoa or sitting. I have finished out a lot of pointers, and finished out a lot of labs. However I send my dogs to Lonny taylor to get finish work done on the water. He doesn't do very much upland work, so the relationship between us works out well. I have however FF,FTP, and started 3 handed casting on a few SH dogs. Threw birds for QAA dogs, MN hall of fame dogs, all age dogs, ameature dogs, SH dogs, and JH dogs. Julie has done a good job, I don't think I ever took that away from her. But what about Doug greiner, or someone like that. I believe he charges around $500 and has had many GMPR's come out of there. It's kind of like this, do you think Mike Lardy gets bad dogs? Probably not, by the time they get there most have been gone through. He only gets the cream of the crop. And then he does a great job with those dogs. And yes she is a very nice woman from what I know of her.

hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island

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07/06/2007 9:51 PM	Alert
If you're planning on spending as much money as it is going to take to get your dog trained and then send it out on a trainer's truck to campaign for titles, the difference in training fees over that amount of time is going to amount to-what-one month's training fee? It's expensive no matter how you do it. Much more important to find a trainer you trust and can work with! Can you get to the trainer to see your dog work and learn what the dog is learning? Is your training style similar to the trainer-if not, YOU will have to learn to be different, not the dog when it gets home-can you do it? Are you happy with the schedule for your dog, and where it will live while it is away from home? Will the trainer work with your dog as an individual, or put it into a program and wash it out if it can't keep up? Lots of factors about this decision that should be more important than the money, IMO-it is an investment either way.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

oakcreeklabs
Moundridge Kansas

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07/07/2007 12:43 AM	Alert
My math has it at a difference of $3-5000 difference. That's a chunk of change. But money also shouldn't be the biggest reason for which trainer to choose, I understand that. I just doubt that there would be much difference in the final product, just my opinion.

hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island

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07/07/2007 4:05 AM	Alert
Oak, not going to debate the math with you-too many options. As far as the final product-it might be that you get a similarly skilled dog from a lesser known/less expensive trainer. But what we are discussing (at least the way the thread has progressed) is titling a dog. If my goal is a GMPR, like Shawn said, I am going to take my dog to someone that has a history of training them and achieving the title. Passing tests is a skill. Dogs who pass tests are handled differently than dogs with the same training that just hunt, becuase of the specific rules of the tests. When your dog brings you a bird out in the field, do you give him a pat after he delivers it? How many CP/JH level dogs are failed because the handler touches the dog? How many dogs fail because of handler error-often due to nerves? How many people are nervous about handling their dogs while hunting? Different thing all together.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Rob G
Cedaredge, CO

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07/07/2007 6:25 AM	Alert
I think you all chased "jake" away!! Poor guy comes on to the APLA website, writes his very first post, asks a very simple and unbiased question, and opens a very big can of worms!! Relax everyone...plenty of room for all of us to do our own thing. No need prove anything to anyone... Rob

Home of: CPR Bearpoint's Top Gun "Maverick" PRG's Hunter's Lullaby "Cricket" CPR Sam's Jumpin Jack Flash "Jack"

Jay
Topeka, KS Go GORILLAS!!

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07/07/2007 7:28 AM	Alert
But dad.......... Well, I'll keep training my own. It may take me a while, but I can't afford even Oaks prices. Amatures CAN do it, a pro is not a necessity. This fact often gets forgotten in this group. OK, I'll stop now. I've got to get back to work anyways. Jay

There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness. GMPR APR HR Tornado Allie of Blk Forest

oakcreeklabs
Moundridge Kansas

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07/07/2007 9:37 AM	Alert
I realize that hooli, that's why I never said that he should bring a dog to me. I did say that there other options that have trained dogs to those levels. Those names usually get left out of these conversations. Have a good saturaday, I am off to train some dogs on simple doubles and long singles over water, and through decoys. Have a good one I guess my problem is that I go against the grain. When someone is looking for a trainer, you guys say Julie. When someone wants a dog, you guys say Mork, Greer, and black forest most time then not. There are other options, and I guess I am the a%^ that brings those others up.

Top Dog Kennels
South Dakota

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07/07/2007 10:47 AM	Alert
Its good to have debates/discussions to get differnt opinions. We all have our own thoughts and views.

"Gettin' Straight To the Point"

Doc_E
N.E. WA state

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07/07/2007 1:09 PM	Alert
oakcreek, There is nothing wrong with your advice or sentiments...........But you sometimes seem a bit oversensitive. .

Doc E and Cujo Casey boy.

oakcreeklabs
Moundridge Kansas

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07/07/2007 1:35 PM	Alert
I never have been called sensitive before, might take it as a compliment. I would say I am more arguementative then sensative. Hey doc, I have a dog that for some reason has gotten really swollen starting under the ear all the way down under the jaw. Then under his neck is really swollen and feels like it might have fluid in it. I was wondering if he was bitten by something. I gave him some anti biotics, should I give him some benedrayl or something until I get him to the vet on monday

keskam
Pierce, Colorado

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07/07/2007 1:43 PM	Alert
Oak I agree with Doc, It is kinda like my business ,You have to show your client that you have done what you say you can do. You need to take a couple of your dogs get them to GMPR and the clients will come a runnin!! Were as Julie has built that Credibility, You get that built up we will all be taking about you!! Kevin

HR Rocky Mountain Rosco JH APR HR Lady Satin of Black Forest JH SHR Satin's Jumpin Jedi JH SHR Chelsea Snow Angel JH APR HR KB's Snakey Jake of Poudre River JH SHR KB's It's Showtime of Bearpoint (Star) SHR KB's Loaded To Go Allie KB's Black Diamond Tessa

Doc_E
N.E. WA state

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07/07/2007 1:52 PM	Alert
I have a dog that for some reason has gotten really swollen starting under the ear all the way down under the jaw. Then under his neck is really swollen and feels like it might have fluid in it. I was wondering if he was bitten by something. I gave him some anti biotics, should I give him some benedrayl or something until I get him to the vet on monday It's hard to say. Could be an infection, could be a bite. It's impossible to give an accurate treatment plan without an accurate diagnosis. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. .

Doc E and Cujo Casey boy.

camelcluch
Parker, Co

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07/09/2007 1:46 PM	Alert
I went to Julie with my pup and couldn't even think of being happier. I have seen and used other trainer (not for P/Ls) and product to cost ratio is no contest. Gun Club produces and that's a fact. It'll be hard to beat that fact even with 20 g's. Plus the knutsons are wonderful peole to boot. People do what they have to do to get the dog they want, but that doesn't take away from what Julie can do with a dog.

CPR Black Forest's Zuberant Zoie

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