Doc_E
N.E. WA state
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| 01/04/2006 8:30 PM |
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I realize that the APLA Board has a lot of important things on their agenda, but here is a Pet Peeve of mine.
Why is it that dogs that are only AKC Registered are recognized by the APLA? What about the dogs that are only UKC Registered?
I understand that it's easy to verify the dogs that are AKC registered, and that it is a bit of a hassle to verify UKC registered dogs --- BUT, how many dogs can there be that are only UKC registered that will run in APLA events? -- Maybe a half dozen or less. And once their registry is confirmed, it doesn't need to be done again, right? Why doesn't a copy of the "UKC Certificate of Registration" work on something like this?
Example : Casey's last litter that he sired : The female (and most of her ancestors) are only UKC registered. (Casey is registered in both AKC & UKC), so the pups from this litter are only UKC registered......... And they can't run in APLA events  . And most (?ALL?) of them should be great pointing retrievers.
Although only a handful of additional dogs (UKC Registered) would probably run in APLA events, more is better -- right?
Wdlfbio (on the "old" PL.com) mentioned that it would be a real hassle to verify UKC Registered dogs --- but with only a handful or less, how much of a hassle could it really be?
Personally, I think that both AKC and UKC registered dogs should be able to run in APLA events.
In fact, it is highly possible that my next dog will only be registered with UKC (?maybe?), and I know of one fairly well known PL person that has a pup that is only UKC registered------but with the rules as they currently are, he cannot run this dog in an APLA event  And, if at sometime in the future, she is bred, none of her pups could run n APLA either 
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Doc E and Cujo Casey boy. |
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| 01/05/2006 4:21 AM |
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There is a board meeting this evening. I will put this question to everyone and see what happens. Then I'll probably be assigned to 'look into it'. If you have any more info that would be helpful in answering questions as to the UKC, send it my way so I can know more than I do now.
3 weeks out of the office? You can work right here while you're here!
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hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island
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| 01/05/2006 6:59 AM |
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| Why can't people signing up for trials be required to supply a copy of their dog's registration papers-in whatever kennel club? That would eliminate the organization having to spend lots of time looking it all up. It seems to me that it is the responsibility of the person registering to comply with the organization's requirements if they want to participate. And, as long as the dog is registered with a recognized club (AKC, UKC, CKC, etc.) why should it matter which one(s)? I thought, from the previous thread on the other board, that the reason registration papers were required was to prove the dog was a purebred lab. Am I missing something? This just seems unnecessarily complicated to me... |
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Cuivre River Retrievers
Hawk Point, MO
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| 01/05/2006 7:15 AM |
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Julie,
I second Doc's request because as you know I am quite a fan of the UKC hunt tests as well and I also have a dog (Baili) that falls into this catagory. Unfortunately, her great grandsire was owned by one of the original founders of HRC and the story I'm told is that there was some kind of falling out between him and the AKC when they were originally setting up the HRC so therefore the grandsire was not AKC registered even though both parents were AKC registered. Now, three generations later I am still unable to run her in APLA events (she is only UKC registered) because of a problem that I had no part in creating. I don't really understand what "bit of a hassle to verify UKC registered dogs" refers to but I will do my part to help move this along in any way I can. I have a lot of contacts in the HRC so if I can be of any assistance in getting your questions answered don't hesitate to give me a call.
Thanks!
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Brett Bunk
www.cuivreriverretrievers.com
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GMPR HRCH Cuivre River's Playin' for Keeps SH (Gauge)
HRCH Breakwater's Black Velvet Rose MH (Rosie)
HRCH YRP Brownwaterdog's Ugottabelieve (Baili)
HR Black Forest's Relentless Pursuit (Gunner)
HRCH Cuivre River's Kayes Bossy Autumn SH (Autumn)
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sonicman Moderator
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| 01/05/2006 8:11 AM |
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For the APLA data base to be complete you must have CORRECT names and numbers of people, dogs, etc. You must also be able to reference the dogs somehow.
Our new entry system will be tied in with the new data base. The only common thing that all dogs currently have is an AKC number. (Dogs competing for their CPR title don't have an APLA number.)
There has been no purposeful attempt to keep out UKC only registered dogs that I know of. I also don't know of anyone trying to enter a UKC only registered dog.
I don't know anything about UKC vs. AKC poitics and don't want to.
It sound like it will be brought up at the board meeting. |
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sonicman Moderator
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| 01/05/2006 8:20 AM |
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Here is another newsflash.
Any purebred lab (dog) can be registered with the AKC and receive an AKC number which allows them to participate in AKC events (but not breed).
For people with UKC registered dogs this would allow you to do AKC stuff as well as APLA.
It is called "indefinite Listing Privilege" and the fee is a whopping $10.
Just go to akc.org and click on the "Registration" link.
Looks like a pretty good "work around" with some possible other fringe benefits. |
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Cuivre River Retrievers
Hawk Point, MO
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| 01/05/2006 8:29 AM |
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originally posted by sonicman.........
For the APLA data base to be complete you must have CORRECT names and numbers of people, dogs, etc. You must also be able to reference the dogs somehow.
Our new entry system will be tied in with the new data base. The only common thing that all dogs currently have is an AKC number. (Dogs competing for their CPR title don't have an APLA number.)
And UKC registered dogs have a R# as well - why can you not use this #?
There has been no purposeful attempt to keep out UKC only registered dogs that I know of. I also don't know of anyone trying to enter a UKC only registered dog.
Because the rules say you cannot - that is the point we are trying to make and rectify!
Here is another newsflash.
Any purebred lab (dog) can be registered with the AKC and receive an AKC number which allows them to participate in AKC events (but not breed).
That's a great answer.....................if you want to spay or neuter your dog!!!!!  |
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Brett Bunk
www.cuivreriverretrievers.com
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GMPR HRCH Cuivre River's Playin' for Keeps SH (Gauge)
HRCH Breakwater's Black Velvet Rose MH (Rosie)
HRCH YRP Brownwaterdog's Ugottabelieve (Baili)
HR Black Forest's Relentless Pursuit (Gunner)
HRCH Cuivre River's Kayes Bossy Autumn SH (Autumn)
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bubulkaj Moderator
Blue Springs, Missouri
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| 01/05/2006 9:42 AM |
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Brett,
I think Sonicman is trying to make the point that the Board will look in to it and and make a decision. I think they want to rectify the situation and will do all possible to try to give eveyone a chance to particiapte. He was just throwing out other options available until a decision gets made and the matter gets resolved. Indefinite Listing Privilege with AKC may not be a viable solution for you but might be for some one that has already spade or neautered thier dog and wants to participate right away.
I dont know the history of the APLA that well but I doubt there was a concious effort made in the begining to keep out UKC folks. My guess is it was probably just overlooked. I could be wrong. By bringing the matter to the attention of the Board it can now be addressed and I am sure that it will. I agree, in todays world it should not be that hard to verify a UKC registration. And with the popularity of HRC hunt tests you probably will be seeing more and more UKC only registrations, so now is a good time to bring it up. (I plan on registering my AKC registered dog in UKC and running HRC tests)
Now that we have a functional forum we as members of the APLA have a great opportunity to bring things like these to the table for the board to decide. We also have an APLA members only "Ask the Board topic" area where we can discuss these issues in a more private forum if so desired.
Be patient and positive, I think you are going to see a lot of siginificant improvements to our orginization, we have a new Board, new Website, and new enthusiasm. Lets keep it going.
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Cuivre River Retrievers
Hawk Point, MO
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| 01/05/2006 10:07 AM |
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Agreed Joe - my bad! 
I guess it was the sarcastic tone of the "newsflash" and a "fee of a whopping $10" that set me off.
My apologies to sonicman if I came off as vindictive but this has been a "pet peeve" of mine as well since joining the APLA.
All we asking for is a little consideration or a legitimate reason why recognizing UKC registrations would not be possible.
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Brett Bunk
www.cuivreriverretrievers.com
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GMPR HRCH Cuivre River's Playin' for Keeps SH (Gauge)
HRCH Breakwater's Black Velvet Rose MH (Rosie)
HRCH YRP Brownwaterdog's Ugottabelieve (Baili)
HR Black Forest's Relentless Pursuit (Gunner)
HRCH Cuivre River's Kayes Bossy Autumn SH (Autumn)
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sonicman Moderator
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| 01/05/2006 6:55 PM |
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I just read about the indifinite listing deal in a magazine the other day. I went to the AKC website to investigate it further.
I wrote "newsflash" because I had never heard of it before.
I wrote "whopping" because I thought that $10 was cheap.
I sure don't know anything about having to spay or nueter your dog. I guess that I should have said that you still can't register your dogs pups with the AKC. That's all, nothing else implied.
I don't know anything about UKC registration numbers and indicated that I don't now anything about UKC vs AKC and don't want to.
If UKC and AKC numbers are similar it might make things easier.
Like I said before, it sounds like the board is going to look at it.
In the time that I have been on the board I have never heard anyone on the board say that they did not want UKC dogs.
If you want people to participate on the forum in a positive exchange of information you need to lighten up. I am on the board and so have been trying to participate in the forums as a service to the members. (And because it is fun). |
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stuw
North Central Minnesota
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| 01/05/2006 7:30 PM |
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| After reading this thread...I went to the UKC website...and tried to find out how easy or hard it was to check on the registration of a dog....and I got no where....I spent an hour....and all I got was a fee schedule....if you folks out there that have a UKC dog..and know how to work this please let the rest of us know.....I personally have no problem with UKC dogs competing in the APLA....if you can prove its a pure bred lab...it should be able to run...but I'm not a board member either...just the new kid on the block... |
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Doc_E
N.E. WA state
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| 01/05/2006 7:55 PM |
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| I don't think anyone said anything about a concerted/purposeful effort by the APLA to not allow UKC registered dogs.......................... It's just that they currently don't, and I think that should be changed. |
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Doc E and Cujo Casey boy. |
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bubulkaj Moderator
Blue Springs, Missouri
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| 01/05/2006 8:27 PM |
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Stu W,
I did the same thing and I took it one step further, I emailed their registration dept and asked the question: " Is there an easy way to verify a registration, web or phone" I will let you know what I find out.
I am sure the Board will look in to it. As always it is better to present a problem with solution in hand. Heck we dont even know if verification was the issue, that was just one mans thoughts of why it might have been.
Lets wait and let the board do what we elected them to do. They are aware of the issue now thanks to the forum and I am sure they will do the right thing for the organization. Thanks for being proactive and trying to help! |
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bubulkaj Moderator
Blue Springs, Missouri
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| 01/05/2006 8:32 PM |
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| Doc E, never said you did. And I agree with you. I was just expressing my thoughts on the matter. |
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Doc_E
N.E. WA state
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| 01/05/2006 8:38 PM |
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Posted By bubulkaj on 01/05/2006 8:32 PM Doc E, never said you did. And I agree with you. I was just expressing my thoughts on the matter.
Not singling you out at all -- I just noticed that it had been 'eluded to' in a couple ofdifferent posts.
I feel quite sure that the APLA didn't initiate a discrimentory policy against UKC for any reason whatsoever -- I'd guess that it was just something that wasn't thought about when the by-laws were first written.
Doc E.... Buddy to www.pointinglabcasey.itgo.com
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Doc E and Cujo Casey boy. |
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| 01/05/2006 9:00 PM |
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Got an answer at tonight's board meeting. As of today, in lieu of AKC registration, UKC or CKC registrations will be accepted. A copy of the registration is still required for first time APLA entrants (dogs not handlers) along with the entry, but these will be acceptable.
So there you go.
Tired Secretary |
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Doc_E
N.E. WA state
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Doc_E
N.E. WA state
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| 01/05/2006 10:12 PM |
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Posted By APLA Secretary on 01/05/2006 9:00 PM
A copy of the registration is still required for first time APLA entrants (dogs not handlers) along with the entry, but these will be acceptable.
So there you go.
Tired Secretary
Does this mean that my registration with the Cool Swedish Dudes of America won't be needed?
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Doc E and Cujo Casey boy. |
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sonicman Moderator
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| 01/05/2006 10:57 PM |
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Doc,
Not required, but we would love to see a copy of your CSDA membership. |
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Jay
Topeka, KS Go GORILLAS!!
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| 01/06/2006 6:28 AM |
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Sweeeet!!! I really don't care much either way of the UKC/AKC thing, but having a suggestion from a member get posted and talked about on a new site/forum with members and APLA representation, and then proposed at a meeting, followed by the acceptance and immediate response back is sweeet! Plus, they put out an early HT list! Kudos guys and gals!  I'm beginning to like this new system!
You even got Doc to join, that's got to say something.
Jay |
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There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness.
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