Rob G
Cedaredge, CO
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| 09/05/2008 12:54 PM |
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I agree with points (no pun intended  ) on both sides... I just think freedom of choice is a wonderful thing. It doesn't make sense to me to 'legislate' against certain breedings due to titles or lack thereof. Hopefully we are all smart enough to filter through the litters without rules excluding certain ones from advertising. I happen to own two wonderful PL pups that I'd never have seen for sale on this site due to their parents not having APLA titles.
You may not be able to travel across the county to see every untitled X untitled breeding out there in person, but what if one happened to be just down the road from you? You'd never know it the way the rules are now. It sounds like most people would avoid these pups anyway so what's the harm in letting them advertise? You still have the freedom of choice to pick a high titled breeding if that's what you prefer...
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2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!
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| 09/05/2008 2:26 PM |
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| What He Said...."... I just think freedom of choice is a wonderful thing. It doesn't make sense to me to 'legislate' against certain breedings due to titles or lack thereof. Hopefully we are all smart enough to filter through the litters without rules excluding certain ones from advertising" |
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Rob G
Cedaredge, CO
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| 09/05/2008 2:55 PM |
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Posted By DWestphal on 09/05/2008 12:28 PM
As would I!! And in every instance I want to see both work. But if you were researching a litter and you saw these two advertised side by side, doesn’t one jump out at you as being more proven then the other?
My point exactly! Shown side by side, most people will choose the titled litter anyway, so why discriminate against MEMBERS who wish to advertise their untitled litters? The APLA should serve all of its members, not just the ones that "play the games".
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hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island
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| 09/05/2008 3:51 PM |
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| Wait a minute. I am confused by the original problem. Rob has a young, started dog for sale, with a CPR title, that is spayed and cannot make puppies. He can't list this dog in the classifieds? WHY? If this dog doesn't qualify as a started PL, what does???? The dog does not have OFA/CERF numbers-but cannot be bred. Seems to me if the buyer wants OFA and CERF, or any other test, for a non-breeding dog, that is an issue between the two of them. |
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hamie7
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| 09/05/2008 5:11 PM |
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| D westphal
Sorry I must of miss wrote I was woundering if Raiders and Thors Parents were titled I Know Raider is Titled and Thor was also. They where two of the best pls. Raider is my pups grand father I like the way Apla has its classified rules with one parent being titled. But I'm also one who likes to nit pick Pedigrees no matter what titles the parents have. I guess thats why I like the one title rule. Just my opinion tho.
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hamie7
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| 09/05/2008 5:56 PM |
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I did some research from what i found Raiders parents and Thors parents where not have titles for pointing.
I personally wouldn't have wanted to miss either one of these advertised breedings do to a technicality. Of course just my opinion. |
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Rob G
Cedaredge, CO
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| 09/05/2008 6:16 PM |
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I guess my overall point is that not ALL great PL's are products of two titled dogs (or even one)... let the people make their choice without requiring a titled parent to advertise.
And in my started dog case, I think its even more ridiculous that an APLA titled dog cannot be advertised for sale on this site! |
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oakcreeklabs
Moundridge Kansas
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| 09/05/2008 7:03 PM |
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| The classifieds are hard for me, I believe my dogs are as good as anyones they just aren't titled. Why should my dogs be kept off of this site. I feel I am doing as good of a job as anyone else at promoting and breeding the PL. I do understand the policy, seeing how this is the APLA site. I just don't really agree with it |
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redlabelgs
Corsica
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| 09/05/2008 7:57 PM |
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| I sure hope the reason for both parents being titled isnt to help those with titled studs sell breedings. |
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Be all you can be. |
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DWestphal
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| 09/05/2008 8:15 PM |
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Rob- your started dog meets the present requirement as presented by the APLA to try to sell the dog online. I see no reason why that dog shouldn't have been allowed to be put in the classifieds. I guess I was addressing some of the concerns expressed on a number of other threads regarding the saturation etc.. and removing the present restriction on the classifieds. In the end the buyer still has to carry the brunt of the responsibility in choosing the litter that's right for them. But there's so many PL litters being advertised on countless other sites, newspapers etc.. that I believe the APLA has to try to protect potential buyers to the best of their ability. This isn't the AKC that we're dealing with where the numbers are endless, it's the APLA where membership although increasing yearly (from what I can tell) is still in its infancy. I think it's in their best interest to try to promote dogs/litters that have proven that they have what it takes to truly be called a PL.
I understand what your saying about allowing members in good standing to post any litter regardless of titles, but if I'm a breeder and I think I can sell a litter of pups for $200 more per pup by simply spending $40 (or whatever the membership fee is now) and having access to the classifieds, I think that's a membership well spent. And you know as well as I that people are going to see that litter, see that it's on the APLA site and think that they must be legit. So you see the insant dilema that the BOD is then put in. Do you allow anyone who spends the $$ on a membership to post all and any litters, or do you try your best to control what gets advertised not only making an attempt to protect the buyer, but to a degree trying to educate the buyer while protecting the ability to further promote the PL? It's those litters I see advertised now that are advertised as PL's that aren't that are hurting the credibility of the organization. If your the APLA, do you try to protect yourself from those litters? :-)
It's a policy that should be constantly monitored and modified as the BOD sees fit, but presently, I think the rule of at least one dog being APLA titled needs to be kept. |
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Rob G
Cedaredge, CO
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| 09/05/2008 8:34 PM |
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Posted By DWestphal on 09/05/2008 8:15 PM
Rob- your started dog meets the present requirement as presented by the APLA to try to sell the dog online. I see no reason why that dog shouldn't have been allowed to be put in the classifieds.
Your are wrong...my started dog does not meet the present requirement (that is the major point of my thread). The current policy requires OFA and CERF of both parents (even though this female is spayed and cannot be used for breeding). Most likely a gray area that was not anticipated when the rule was devised, but creates a dilema(for me)nonetheless. I think this horse is dead and no longer needs to be beaten... |
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Rob G
Cedaredge, CO
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| 09/05/2008 8:43 PM |
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Posted By DWestphal on 09/05/2008 8:15 PM
It's those litters I see advertised now that are advertised as PL's that aren't that are hurting the credibility of the organization. If your the APLA, do you try to protect yourself from those litters? :-)
It's a policy that should be constantly monitored and modified as the BOD sees fit, but presently, I think the rule of at least one dog being APLA titled needs to be kept.
I'm not sure what they are "protecting" the public from as there is no guarantee that pups from titled PL's guarantee pointing pups. I used to agree with your point of view until I saw the natural pointing ability from the two dogs I own from non titled parents. I now have a slightly different perspective on the subject. I've also seen first hand that titled parents don't necessarily equate to pointing pups. |
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keskam
Pierce, Colorado
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| 09/06/2008 5:48 AM |
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| Rob you went out and got a CPR title on those 2 dogs and you should be able to sell them on here IMO! But I do like to see only titled dogs on the classified because that is what the mission statement is all about and that is what the APLA is about, To certify and Promote labs that point naturally! So if your labs are titled you should be able to sell them on here!! |
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Top Dog Kennels
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| 09/06/2008 3:31 PM |
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I like the idea of requiring OFA and CERF to sell a dog whether the dog is 'intact' or not. Just because a dog can't sire or whelp a litter does not mean the dog may have bad hips or not pass CERF that may cause problems down the road.
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