KwickLabs
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| 09/23/2007 12:05 AM |
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of the year is over.......we've finished with hunt tests. Ducks will start soon, but the upland "segment" requires more work.....and we've been "roading" to improve conditioning.
Since I live in northern Illinois it is difficult to work my pointing Labs on wild birds, so I finally built a Johnny House to help "fine tune the rules". It went into the field this afternoon, and chukars will be in it on Monday.
The plans for the Johnny House are those described in the DVD "Do It Yourself Quail Preserve". 
Kwick “Johnny” House (Link)
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
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2Blackdogs!
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEFS !!!
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| 09/23/2007 3:56 AM |
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| Very Nice-But Ya know Jim- If I had a field like that to put the JH in it would need to have a 2nd room so I could also use it as a deer blind! |
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KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL
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| 09/24/2007 4:54 PM |
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Put the 18 chukars in the JH this morning. Wow! I soon found out how quickly they can scratch out pellets and waste food. The feeder will get some modifications tomorrow. For tonight, a piece of plywood underneath will have to do. 
As for the deer stand......this one is about 600 yards away......back by the tree line. |
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II)
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Trout Bum
Elbert County, CO
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| 09/26/2007 8:46 AM |
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Very nice setup Kwick, I'll be interested in how well the chukars return to the Kwick JH.
When do you plan on releasing a few birds and when do you plan to start training with them? |
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KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL
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| 09/26/2007 10:14 AM |
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This is all new for me, so I'm generally following directions.....or "winging it" so to speak. The quail DVD said wait two weeks with 8-10 week old quail....which may translate to 12 week old chukars (or not). 
Since they were raised together from chicks, they seem to be getting along just fine. I think two weeks would be a good enough time to get them use to "liking" the place and feeling it is "home".....a safe place to hide, rest and sleep. The important issue is if they don't feel like "there is no place like home", they won't come back. 
The third week I will release five out the door for a test. If they don't make it back in ???? hours, the door for the funnel is going to be closed. How much time does it take? The third week will be the releasing and recalling training phase (with no pressure from pointers). One week of this or more?
Does that sound reasonable?
Here's the feeder modification I came up with. A 1" lengthwise slot was cut in 1" diameter PVC tubing. Eight 1½" sections of the tubing were cut with a chop saw....then smoothed out with a Dremel and sand paper. Using jaw-grip, adjustable pliers the "rings" were compressed and slid down into the openings of the feeder. The slot cut in the insert is placed toward the back and allows the pellets to flow into the opening, but not clear to the top. The PVC standpipes will serve to keep the chukars from
flipping "money" out of the feeder hole. |
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II)
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Trout Bum
Elbert County, CO
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| 09/26/2007 10:41 AM |
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I've never tried chukar so I don't have a clue Jim. Quail will come back after a day or two in the JH if there are plenty of callers left in the JH. Time wise they usually return withing an hour or less...again speaking quail.
I do have a JH/bird pen at home I've been thinking about trying some chukar in, so would sure like to see how it works out for you. I think your timeline is more than ample and should work out fine.
That grass you have it in looks perfect, not too high but high enough and plenty thick enough for them to hide in. Green grass can be a problem with scenting, when you get a hard freeze that will change. Are these new grounds or just a different location from the pond setups you've posted?
I ask my buddy Ralph about chukar a couple of months ago. He doesn't like them cuz he says they run too much. Not sure how much he tried them and there is no changing his thinking....tied in the wool 75 yr old pointer guy.
You are quite the engineer Jim, hats off on the JH and the improvision. I hope it works out well for you! |
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hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island
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| 09/26/2007 11:27 AM |
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| Jim, why are you closing the door to the funnel once you let some out? Do your funnels have the "in only" little wire things on the end? I'd hate for them to want in and not be able to get in... |
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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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Trout Bum
Elbert County, CO
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Jere
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| 09/26/2007 12:46 PM |
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Jim, if your modification to the feeder still doesn't work, you might try and restrict the dimension(s) of the holes in the direction of the circumference of the feeder by making short pieces of coat hanger type wire, short legs on each end bent 90 degrees and stuck through holes drilled into the feeder then bent over.. When I made my trough/hopper feeders for my pigeons I had the same issue and I watched the birds feeding. They tossed the less desired food out with sideways flicks of their beaks. Placing wires as described in the troughs cured the problem. If the chukars scoop the feed out, restriction in the other direction may be necessary. Square wire mesh could work too. Maybe 1" square would restrict them sufficiently or 1/2 x 1. In the quantity we're talking either can be cut from 1/2" x 1/2" mesh easily. I think 1/2 x 1/2 may be so small the birds will not be able to get deep enough into the feeder to get the food. I'd place it on the inside of the feeder below the holes the bird access feed through. Maybe tack solder it in place. The birds have to be able to get their beaks deep enough into the feeder to get the food. It doesn't fall down from above until a fair amount has been removed.
Marlana, A major issue which will make one want to force the birds to stay out occurs when there are raptors in the area - even occassionally. The birds (the ones that don't become hawk food) quickly learn to seek the safety of the JH. You'll see, in the pictures I linked to from the other site, the JHs there had substantial expanded metal and angle iron entrance covers. These were to keep predators AND JH birds out. Those 4' x 4' x 6' plywood JHs are Bill Gs. When we were training in the alfalfa fields west of Phoenix there were quite a few hawks. The quail immediately ran back to the vicinity of the JHs after being released. Bill has a JRT and a daschund he kept, sometimes tied to a JH, for the express porpose of shooing the birds back into the field. Still, when there was a raptor in the area, the quail would do anything they could to hide. They would climb up onto the tires of the vehicles parked nearby etc. The little dogs had a field day trying to chase them away.
This is why I suggested earlier that a brush pile near the JH would be a good idea. Bush piles scattered in the training area, if there is insufficient natural cover, would help keep the birds away from the JH, but most intelligent dogs would learn quickly where the birds might be. This is not necessarily bad, but make the artificial cover as natural looking as possible and provide as many such covers as energy allows or effective training will be difficult.
Randy, chukars' running can be moderated by "hobbling" the birds. One end of a piece of red suveyor's tape is tied to one bird leg and then a few inches away to the other leg. A couple of feet of tape is left flopping to make human sighting of the bird and recapture (not necessary with JH birds) easier. It would be a pain to do this with a crowd of JH birds though.
Jere |
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KwickLabs
Roscoe, IL
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| 09/26/2007 1:37 PM |
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Marlana, I don't live on this property. I'll be trying to figure out a liberal time frame to allow for the chukars' recall. I'm hoping when I start releasing them......two or three hours after training will be long enough. I should be able to get a better read on this at the start. I either want to close it up before I leave or have a set time to return.
From my experience with game preserve released chukars within about an hour after "planting", those not found will start "joining forces" and pairing up. So if my JH chukars know the routine and where to go......"meeting up" should be even quicker.
That 4" hole is plenty big enough for a feral cat, and I surely don't intend to leave it open for extended times and certainly at night.
Consider it kind of a severe curfew........if you're not home on time........you are locked out for the night.  |
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II)
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hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island
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| 09/26/2007 1:59 PM |
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Hmmm. Maybe I'll have to re-think my plan, then. I have reinforced the entrance to the tunnel with metal-but I hadn't planned to close off the funnel-mine have little wire spring trap things on the inside end, so the chukkar can go in but not out. Raccoons are the biggest threat from land on this property, and they won't fit through the tunnel. A cat? Maybe...
I am going to choose the sites this afternoon. Jere, I am keeping your brush/cover suggestions in mind. I will take pics of the houses once they are in place, and you can all critique...
I'm not as cool as Jim, though-I bought my tube feeders/waterers... |
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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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Rob G
Cedaredge, CO
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| 09/27/2007 10:59 AM |
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| My quail are recalling quite well, unless they are flushed and fly far away from the house. Next spring I plan to move the JH a little closer to the center of my field.
One problem I've experienced though is getting them to fly out of the flip up window. When I open it, they all go to the other side of the roost. On the offchance that I can get them to fly out, they only drop to the ground right around the JH! I've resorted to catching them with a net and gently tossing them so they take flight and go into the field a bit further. I need to figure out a better way for sure.
As for the recall funnel, I spent a bit more money and ordered one that is weight sensitive (it closes if something larger than a quail is in it. So far it has worked flawlessly and I haven't had any preditor issues.
Jim, let me know how your chukar do flying out of the window.
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KwickLabs
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| 09/27/2007 11:38 AM |
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Well, it has been going on four days and I have not seen a single chukar on the ledge. I may have to "work them to the top" by putting in a 2"x2" perch (or two) to get closer. 
Judging by the way they "shrink back" away from the door when I open it, they probably won't fly out off the ledge either (if they ever get up there).
The PVC "rings" appear to be working......unless there is a learning curve. |
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Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
Home of: MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
Kwick Draw McGraw ("Dustbucket" II)
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Jere
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| 09/27/2007 12:18 PM |
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Posted By Rob G on 09/27/2007 10:59 AM
My quail are recalling quite well, unless they are flushed and fly far away from the house. Next spring I plan to move the JH a little closer to the center of my field. One problem I've experienced though is getting them to fly out of the flip up window. When I open it, they all go to the other side of the roost. On the offchance that I can get them to fly out, they only drop to the ground right around the JH! I've resorted to catching them with a net and gently tossing them so they take flight and go into the field a bit further. I need to figure out a better way for sure. As for the recall funnel, I spent a bit more money and ordered one that is weight sensitive (it closes if something larger than a quail is in it. So far it has worked flawlessly and I haven't had any preditor issues. Jim, let me know how your chukar do flying out of the window. Rob
The release door on the JHs Bill G uses are raised and lowered with a piece of rope which passes through the JH to the side opposite the release door. It is tied there to secure the door in the up position. Untying it and letting out some of the slack allows the door to fall down. Since the person doing this is not near the door the birds are likely to go to the door side and escape. There is no shelf except on the side with the release door.
http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u82/jtm_photobucket/Johnny%20House/?action=view¤t=200301300291ReleaseDoorOutsideView.jpg
http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u82/jtm_photobucket/Johnny%20House/?action=view¤t=200301300297ExternalWaterSupply.jpg
IF they are sufficiently afraid of humans. Quail, especially, tame easily. I would arrange to be able to feed and water the birds from outside and make sure all experiences with humans are not friendly...
Jim, Bill's chukars which he kept in one of those JHs over one winter in Phoenix loved to get up onto the shelf. They made a racket every morning greeting the sun from there and woke us in the camper not far away. I don't think he "trained" them to do that but you might figure out a way to get them up and then block the opening between shelves for a day or so, feed and water them up on the shelf then - just to make them aware of and comfortable in that space. Or tie one up there for a day???
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Rob G
Cedaredge, CO
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| 09/27/2007 1:36 PM |
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Jim, my quail did not spend much time on the shelf in the beginning either. I got to the point where I would go in and scare them up there a couple of times a day. Now they fly up there whenever I open the door.
Jere, I don't think its a matter of them being too tame around me. I have a lot of cover around the base of the JH and I think they feel content just running around there rather than flying out to my relatively "naked" field. I'm planning on planting more bushes and trees along the center of my field, but until then, they will probably continue to fly out short and run for cover. I plan on rigging up a rope and pulley system for the door shortly.
I'm just happy to have training birds available to me. I don't use them every day as I want my dogs to get used to finding birds every time out (and there seem to be plenty of wild pheasant living in my fields).
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hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island
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| 09/27/2007 3:33 PM |
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| Planting fall rye/pea/vetch mix on the plowed field tomorrow, and setting out the chukkar houses. The way the trees are, the birds will be "sitting ducks" if I put the houses in the middle of the field. All the safe cover is at the edge of the tree line...I am going to put them so there is as much cover as possible around the base of the house, and see how they do. There are so many birds of prey here that cover is more important than being away from the trees, where they are easy pickings. The ravens especially are brutal to birds in the open (learned this while planting pigeons for the dog to practice with). The only bird that can get them from the immediate trees is a Cooper's hawk, and if there is cover by the bottom of the house and funnel, they should be ok. |
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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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Rob G
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| 09/27/2007 4:27 PM |
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Hooligan,
I placed my quail house on the edge for the same reason as you. Unfortunately, they don't seem too motivated to fly as far away from the house as I would have liked. Hopefully you have better luck.
BTW, does anyone know where I can purchase (website) a good net for catching birds? Preferably a cloth one. I am using an old fishing net and it isn't deep enough and I'm constantly untangeling them from the holes in the net.
Rob |
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CPR Bearpoint's Top Gun "Maverick"
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hooligan
Southern California and Vancouver Island
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| 09/27/2007 6:37 PM |
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Rob, the best nets I have used have been from the kid's fishing section! Close mesh, shorter handle-work really well. Butterfly nets for kids work pretty well, too. My favorite was a Spiderman fishing net-but a really pissed chukkar thrashed it, finally. I had it for quite a while, though. Get a couple so if one gets torn, you have another one handy. They're usually only a few dollars.
I am hoping the food plot smorgasbord will entice them into the field...if not, then teaching the dog to flush birds out of blackberry thickets might happen sooner than I expected! |
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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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Trout Bum
Elbert County, CO
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| 09/28/2007 5:49 AM |
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The newer catch and release fishing nets have a much tighter mesh. It's easier on the fish and quail feet wouldn't get caught in the mess. They are available with a longer handle as well. You can find them in the fly fishing shops, places like Sportsmans Wareshouse, Gander Mtn. Cabela's.......
This is one with the standard sized handle.
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Rob G
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| 09/28/2007 1:47 PM |
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The only problem with fishing nets is that the "net" part is usually not deep enough. The ones I saw the guy use when I got my quail was cool. I was made of cloth and it looked kind of like a pillow case. A while ago someone referred me to a website that sold flight pen netting. If memory serves, it also sold lots of bird type accessories. Anyone recall the name of the site?
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CPR Bearpoint's Top Gun "Maverick"
PRG's Hunter's Lullaby "Cricket"
CPR Sam's Jumpin Jack Flash "Jack"
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