Pike
New Member
Posts:5
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| 06 Jul 2010 07:23 AM |
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I adopted my 10 week old lab pup on Feb 1st from a rescue which got him from an amish puppy mill when he was 10 weeks old to train him to hunt antlers. (which he picked up very fast) While our first shed hunting trip to my property in OH. when he was 14 weeks old, during our hunt he started pointing every time he came across one of our many grouse and woodcocks. Which shocked me but was also an un wanted distraction.
Once his shed hunting training was pretty much completed I started training him to hunt upland birds since he had already shown a natural ability to locate birds and stay on point on his own at such very young age. But im currently involed in a debate on another hunting forum about pointing labs, others on that forum are trying to tell me that labs dont point!! And my lab is not pointing!! Another member is trying to tell me that the only way to have a pointing lab is to train him to point instead of to flush because there is no such thing as a lab that points instinctively. Thanks for any input. Pike
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Ruby's pal
Advanced Member
Posts:572
SW Oregon
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| 06 Jul 2010 09:18 AM |
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Pike,
First of all Welcome and congrats on rescuing a pup and giving it a good home! Second, PLs are not widely accepted by the mainstream pointer folks. Don't let it get to you, just enjoy your dog and his natural abilities. It sounds like he is pointing, time will tell if it continues, or is just a pause before the flush. Either way enjoy the ride and get out with your dog as much as possible. This is a great site to gain information and ask questions. Consider getting Julie's book from GunClub on training the pointing lab. It is the best resource available.
I was born and raised in a family that bred and hunted Shorthairs, so I know what a pointing dog is and have been hunting over Pointing Labs for the last 10 years and they have all been great family companions and hunting partners.
Have a good one.
Pat
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| Lord may I be half the man that my dogs think that I am! |
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 06 Jul 2010 11:02 AM |
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Pike
Give us the URL of the "other forum" and some of us can go there and kindly (and I do mean kindly) show them evidence to the contrary.
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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Maximillion
Basic Member
Posts:337
Clayton, North Carolina
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| 06 Jul 2010 02:07 PM |
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I have gotten funny looks from a few folks, Yes one or two are believers now that happen to be there when I am working Max. I just chuckle when I do mention it and I get that look and then I invite them along on a hunt or come to a training session, yet to get a call. |
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Richard McCullough
2.5XGMPR HR Lankas Labs Brandys Maximillion SH "Max"
Rick's Rooster Smasher of DRL "Eli"
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Pike
New Member
Posts:5
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| 06 Jul 2010 06:47 PM |
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Guys thanks for the welcome, info and the replies!!
Doc here is the link. Thanks again, Pike
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/sporting-dogs/325138-what-do-you-think-all-around-best-sporting-dog.html |
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sproulman
New Member
Posts:52
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| 06 Jul 2010 08:42 PM |
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toby points groundhogs bigtime but nothing else.he will hold point for 5 minutes then SLOWLY step at time stalk them.i had cars stop and tape him. they said they never saw that in a dog ever.he will point/ stalk for 100 yds away. may take him 30 minutes to get within 20 ft of hog.step at time holding his back leg up in air ,then front .
something to see. |
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Maximillion
Basic Member
Posts:337
Clayton, North Carolina
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| 08 Jul 2010 04:20 AM |
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I just read the whole thread on Hunting net, even posted a reply. but you will not change their minds even with pics. I was going to post some pics but decided not to as it would not do any good. I did mention a couple items in the pointer world that may spool them up in training wise. but be rest assured, our dogs do point and we got the best of both worlds (upland and waterfowl) with it. |
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Richard McCullough
2.5XGMPR HR Lankas Labs Brandys Maximillion SH "Max"
Rick's Rooster Smasher of DRL "Eli"
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 08 Jul 2010 06:06 AM |
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I used to frequent "hunting net . com", (in fact, I think that's where I first met "sproulman').
I haven't gone to that site for well over a year because of the stupidity there.
It is a 100% USLESS site.
I did just put up a pic of the winners of the WA State Bird Dog Challenge (Casey took 3rd in the State -- in the pointing division). It'll be interesting (and boring) to see the responses from the nay-sayers now.
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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DocFritz
Advanced Member
Posts:615
SW Iowa
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| 08 Jul 2010 02:29 PM |
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someone needs to inform them that labs aren't allowed in the "NAVDA" or what ever they are called.... |
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Fritz Baier D.C.
GMHR-II WR SR MPR APR CPR Baier's Mighty Waldimar
MHR WR HR SR CPR Baier's Lady Gabrielle
Baier's Lady Legacy of TruPoint |
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sproulman
New Member
Posts:52
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| 08 Jul 2010 08:49 PM |
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Posted By Doc_E on 08 Jul 2010 06:06 AM
I used to frequent "hunting net . com", (in fact, I think that's where I first met "sproulman').
I haven't gone to that site for well over a year because of the stupidity there.
It is a 100% USLESS site.
I did just put up a pic of the winners of the WA State Bird Dog Challenge (Casey took 3rd in the State -- in the pointing division). It'll be interesting (and boring) to see the responses from the nay-sayers now.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
many of my friends left HUNTINGNET and HUNTINGPA sites, i do many, hundreds.they started BANNING on the NORTHEST FORUM .i was baNNED FOR SAYING WHAT I WOULD DO TO SOMEONE WHO WOULD SHOOT MY DOG ON PURPOSE IN WOODS WHILE HUNTING.
after hundereds of e-mails to huntingnet, they allowed me back.now all those folks are gone but i did get them unbanned but they will not comeback,.
i still go on dog topic as many friends are still there.
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DocFritz
Advanced Member
Posts:615
SW Iowa
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| 09 Jul 2010 07:50 AM |
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I just couldn't resist battling the ignorance |
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Fritz Baier D.C.
GMHR-II WR SR MPR APR CPR Baier's Mighty Waldimar
MHR WR HR SR CPR Baier's Lady Gabrielle
Baier's Lady Legacy of TruPoint |
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Paco
Advanced Member
Posts:839
On a trout stream in NW, MI.
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| 11 Jul 2010 06:25 PM |
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I took a look.
There was a thread over there a couple years ago very similar.
Some one that had just hunted over my dog when I was actively guiding more, made reference to the fact that indeed these PLs do really point, and are a bit versatile.
Same stuff as now.
I really don't care. Though a pal did post a couple pics of dogs I kinda know and think they point,,,,LOL !
I've never been able to register there, and I am kinda glad of that.
Nothing to prove here.
Let the dogs do the talkin' , regards, Paco
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________________________________________
Founding member- Michigan Mafia (aka MM ;)
4X GMPR HRCH Fraquelli's Sauble River "GATOR"
GMPR HRCH HRKs Liberators Outlaw "RONDO" SH
GMPR VeraGators Smokin' Diablo of G'Force "SMOKEY"
Trust your dogs - Let 'em Roll
www.gforceretrievers.com
Outlaw Upland~Waterfowl Labs
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sproulman
New Member
Posts:52
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| 12 Jul 2010 07:17 PM |
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today toby pointed for 12 and 1/2 minutes on rabbit in my yard at 80 plus degrees.that was 1 time ,other was around 5 minutes he pointed.then he slowly stalked for awhile,pointed again and held his back foot up in air for minutes,then front ,then laid down.then he CRAWLED TO WITHIN 4 YDS OF RABBIT.
toby is not pointing lab but i believe if i knew how to train him to point,he would have.
no WOA to get him to hold.he is doing this more and more as he knows he can get closer to anything.
in woods, he does not do it other than a rattlesnake/porky/raccoon/possum.he points bears and stalks them slowly 1 foot at a time.he stalks and points coyotes but usually they see him way before he can get close.
he started doing this at about 6 years old.toby is 7 yrs 3 months and 6 days old now and is doing the point alot now. but on grouse,no but on pheasants he is but does not hold point very long which i like anyhow because the pheasants usually run.
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DocFritz
Advanced Member
Posts:615
SW Iowa
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| 28 Jul 2010 01:38 PM |
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Ok, this guy MUSTAD on the hunting.net that bahed the ideas of PL's and the our tests were basically useless (traded a few PMs with him as well) just posted up the critereia for NAVDA or what ever it is that he thinks is "objective" and shoul dbe the standard of wether or not a dog should be bred.....
An interesting (if underwhelming) test. I doubt there are many MPR's that could not do it...... Gotta swim after a shckled duck for eight minutes or until you catch it, Track, and sit by the blind while the handler goes out of sight.... other then that point and stay steady for a singel retrieve
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Fritz Baier D.C.
GMHR-II WR SR MPR APR CPR Baier's Mighty Waldimar
MHR WR HR SR CPR Baier's Lady Gabrielle
Baier's Lady Legacy of TruPoint |
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DocFritz
Advanced Member
Posts:615
SW Iowa
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| 28 Jul 2010 01:38 PM |
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Ok, this guy MUSTAD on the hunting.net that bahed the ideas of PL's and the our tests were basically useless (traded a few PMs with him as well) just posted up the critereia for NAVDA or what ever it is that he thinks is "objective" and shoul dbe the standard of wether or not a dog should be bred.....
An interesting (if underwhelming) test. I doubt there are many MPR's that could not do it...... Gotta swim after a shckled duck for eight minutes or until you catch it, Track, and sit by the blind while the handler goes out of sight.... other then that point and stay steady for a singel retrieve
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Fritz Baier D.C.
GMHR-II WR SR MPR APR CPR Baier's Mighty Waldimar
MHR WR HR SR CPR Baier's Lady Gabrielle
Baier's Lady Legacy of TruPoint |
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Paco
Advanced Member
Posts:839
On a trout stream in NW, MI.
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| 29 Jul 2010 01:14 PM |
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Read Doc E's - Second and third lines in his post.
This Mustad must be of some significance to stir anyone up.
Heard all that stuff way to many times, and have not had anything like what the nay sayers have experienced in the PL world I am
privy to.
I could go that route with the versatiles I've seen, but why lower myself. I always say "you have to see the good ones of any breed", most dogs folks hunt with are middle of the pack at best. If you like what you have, what's it really matter what some guy on the internet or anywhere thinks or says? |
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________________________________________
Founding member- Michigan Mafia (aka MM ;)
4X GMPR HRCH Fraquelli's Sauble River "GATOR"
GMPR HRCH HRKs Liberators Outlaw "RONDO" SH
GMPR VeraGators Smokin' Diablo of G'Force "SMOKEY"
Trust your dogs - Let 'em Roll
www.gforceretrievers.com
Outlaw Upland~Waterfowl Labs
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DocFritz
Advanced Member
Posts:615
SW Iowa
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| 29 Jul 2010 02:37 PM |
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I was not commenting on a breed, just that this test that is supposedly all of that, requires very little ability other then Obediance to pass. |
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Fritz Baier D.C.
GMHR-II WR SR MPR APR CPR Baier's Mighty Waldimar
MHR WR HR SR CPR Baier's Lady Gabrielle
Baier's Lady Legacy of TruPoint |
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sproulman
New Member
Posts:52
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| 30 Jul 2010 01:03 PM |
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Posted By Paco on 29 Jul 2010 01:14 PM
Read Doc E's - Second and third lines in his post.
This Mustad must be of some significance to stir anyone up.
Heard all that stuff way to many times, and have not had anything like what the nay sayers have experienced in the PL world I am
privy to.
I could go that route with the versatiles I've seen, but why lower myself. I always say "you have to see the good ones of any breed", most dogs folks hunt with are middle of the pack at best. If you like what you have, what's it really matter what some guy on the internet or anywhere thinks or says? mustad said toby was not pointing or standing,he is playing around at home.i dont believe that. toby is SMART.he knows if he HOLDS on groundhog he may sneak closer to get him. same with bear,coyote,rabbit.he is not playing around in my yard, he is all business and found a way to get closer .thats all. for grouse in woods he does not do it because most fly away. toby knows that he cant fly to catch grouse,so he figures the closes he can get to grouse is by flushing it. he does not FLUSH a coyote in woods, he holds and stalks.same with bear,fox or bobcat. he will hold and stalk. why because they DONT FLY AWAY. |
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Paco
Advanced Member
Posts:839
On a trout stream in NW, MI.
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| 30 Jul 2010 02:35 PM |
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Ah YEP,
To close to a grouse and it flushes (and most wild gamebirds for that matter, they are some of the spookiest, in these parts anyways ), there is the key to it all right there. A good grouse dog has learned (from the birds ) that he has to be as Elmer Fudd would say "vehwee, vehwee, careful ".....
Look, even the best of the best pointers/setters that are the grouse dogs of choice for many,and rightfully so, if they bat 50% or a bit better are doing great. |
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________________________________________
Founding member- Michigan Mafia (aka MM ;)
4X GMPR HRCH Fraquelli's Sauble River "GATOR"
GMPR HRCH HRKs Liberators Outlaw "RONDO" SH
GMPR VeraGators Smokin' Diablo of G'Force "SMOKEY"
Trust your dogs - Let 'em Roll
www.gforceretrievers.com
Outlaw Upland~Waterfowl Labs
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sproulman
New Member
Posts:52
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| 30 Jul 2010 07:39 PM |
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thats why i like LAB for grouse.i get shooting at grouse with toby but it would be nice to have a pointing lab that would let me get a little ready to shoot.
with flushing lab toby i have to have my beretta uricka field up ready to shoot.its a lot fun because you dont know when it will happen.secret to FLUSHING dog on grouse here in pa is you must have dog that hunts close to you and out in front of you.wide ranging flushing dog will not work on grouse.
wide ranging POINTING DOG will no doubt find more grouse.
take care sproul
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