Hello all...I have been doing a lot of internet and phone research trying to sort out "best" PL breeders.  So far I have found Tiger Mountain and Blackjack that appear in threads on this site.

My objective are modest...but I DO want to try and start with great hunting/healthy/family dog stock...I would like to hunt grouse and also try to work on getting some os the "titles" as a hobby and a chance to work with the dog and meet some like minded people

My question is...those who have been at it awhile...what are the top breeders from your knowledge and experience? 

What about Cashman's in Minnesota??

Thanks...TomCat in Coldddddd Minnesota

Kinda of a loaded question- it may be better to look for the top producer of Pointy dogs vs top kennels.
Hot Tub is a proven producer and he is out of black jack.
Featherstorm Jake from Sauk River is a top producer and he is in Minnesota.
Fraqullis Sauble River Gator has produced some of the best 'Pointing' pointing labs I have seen in only a few breedings he is owned by an individual not a kennel and is hunted on Grouse almost exclusively . PM Paco on this site for info on his breedings.

There are others...but these are 3 that come to mind based on your post.

Your close to Cashman's I would call them and set up a time to visit. Go see the dogs and see them work. Then I would see if there is any other kennels you can look at or litters. I personally if they would not show you the dogs work I would find someone else.

Good input...I have had two labs before that were essentially family and cabin dogs that only retrieved tennis balls.  They were good dogs but either were not born with a good nose...or I did not expose them correctly and devlope their scent ability...they could walk right by an animal and not know it was there if it did not move or make a noise.  Te be fair...they were emotion purchases from newspaper adds and I had no specific reason to believe they were "field" labs.

Now we are in our early 60s we want another dog and I would like to resume grouse hunting with a "pointer" and hunt the woods here in Northern MN...mostly as I enjoy the woods in the fall and working with a dog.  Also, I would like to try working the dog in field trials (not meant to denote type of trial as I am not that familiar with the differences yet

This time my goal is to research and find the breeder/litter that would create the best chance of having a great dog...one that the weakness is the owner...not the dog.  I have spoken with cashman and will visist them soon...particularly interested in Super Trooper litters as I like the pedigree, the accomplishments and the size and appearance...also have already picked up positive third party comments on Super Trooper here and elsewhere.  I will also talk to Sauk River about Jake...not sure how many more Jake litters are coming,,,seems they are still offering frozen semen stud service...not sure if Jake is beyond his active, productive breeding life?

I also spoke with John Greer at Tiger Mountain.  Originally found Tiger Mountain as there is a MN litter for sale that I Super Trooper x a Tiger Mountain lab daughter.  Tiger Mountain seems to have a quality operation...but is farther away.  I have decided I will not let distance COMPLTELY rule out a dog...but I would like it to be closer as I know I will either need "joint" training or to have the dog "started" as I may be capably of sit/stay/heel/come...but I want to start the dog off right.

Cashman...Tiger Mountain...Blackjack...Sauk River...appear to have had good dogs and litters.  I appreciate the comment that it is not just the kennel...but the litter that counts.

Other that should be added to the list to say identify a top 10 PL breeder list...assuming you want all the good features and may want to enter field trials as a hobby...at least CP and go from there? 

BTW... I also need to study the differences between AKC titles and ALPA titles...and training differences between PL and general retrievers.  Could I just go to the local Duluth Retriever Club and the Twin Cities Retriever Club and join into their training activities...or is ALPA trials so diffferent that you need to train on a different track>

Sorry if this is too long...I am hungry for info...Thanks...TomCat in Two Harbors, MN

I agree with everyone and don't let distance fool or scare you. Also, do your research, don't just look at the web site and listen to some BS over the phone. Call the list of references then call the trainers and see what they know about the breeder and the dogs. I got fooled by someone who claimed to be all that and a bag of chips when it came to pointing labs and this breeder still has my money ($1,400) and I have no dog. Even after repeated attempts to get the money back or just send me any dog so I can donate it to DU or to the seeing eye dog people. One of these days I will be in his state and see if a personal visit will do anything, I will most likely bring the sherrif along with me. After that experience, I really did my research and came up with a great dog out of Top Dog Kennels, just a plug for Leroy.

At Scarlet's next heat, she will again be bred to Phoenix.
The first breeding produced some amazing dogs. (My wife's boy, Tucker, got his HRC Seasoned (senior) title at 12.5 months of age, and his first Upland pass at 9.5 months (even made the "Hunting Retriever" magazine).
This was his first season hunting, and he turned into a Grouse Maniac.
Scarlet & Phoenix are at Sauk River in MN.



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Ello, I'm new to this site and I enjoy it a lot, I'm geting my first puppy PL this weekend  out of  Hi Lo Ranch Kennels in MN. it is a long ways from where I live in WI. but I think it is well worth the trip there, I'm very excited about this puppy because I'm reading a lot of good things about PL in this site, I really like the information and advice that is given here, lots of good people to learn from.

Doc, the sire for My puppy is also phoenix, I wonder if he is the same as dog yours.

Tomcat, I certainly agree w/ alot of the statements here....and you are doing it right...study, study, study!!! BREEDINGS are what you need to be looking for and IF possible watch the dogs run. Ask questions of people (even better if PM'd...sorry guys) but then you get the best responses. I do know of some GREAT breeding's coming up here in KS, but I'll let the owners of these breeding's announce them... I've got at least one deposit in. Anyway, Bladerunner, Im from upstate NY, so if you need me to handle anything when visiting home next time....let me know!!!! Good luck on your endeavors w/ a new pup, so much fun, and feel free to PM me on any questions, I think anyone in the Midwest area who has met me will tell you I'm painfully honest. Can't wait to have a beer you guys this spring, and I better get to meet the MI boys finally!!! Martin

Tomcat - About 18 months ago I too was searching for a well breed pt. lab. Starting from scratch I researched and obtained references on serveral breeders/litters.IT was pleasing to see so many well thought of breeders. I finally settled on a pup whose grand sires are Eli and Hot Tub , two BlackJack dogs. I must say I havn't been disappointed in the least. This pup is full of point and has a great personality.In fact at ten months we are gearing up for the hunt test season and will run her in some field trial derbys. We are doing this only because she is showing the talent to do so.I will gladly share the breeders name since he intends to make the cross again.E-mail me at emf111@aol.com if you would like the breeders info. GOOD LUCK AND HAPPY HUNTING!

Tom,

If I can give the most important piece of advice it would be Patience!  Do your research and wait for a litter between two dogs with some proven qualities that meet your needs.  Attend an APLA event if you can and you will see some really good dogs and meet some really dog savvy people.  I watched for the breeding I liked for over a year before I found just the right breeding for me (I know of a real good one right now but I don't believe it appropriate to advertise in the forum).  It doesn't have to be directly from a big kennel, though I am sure that most sell some pretty good pups.  Many great dogs are from small kennels or individual hunters and usually have roots in some of the major kennels. I got Kenai from Jim Reynolds, a small breeder in Oklahoma.  His sire is out of Blackjack kennels and his dam originally out of Bearpoint Kennels.  Anybody that has seen Kenai work knows that worked out pretty darn well.

I live in Michigan and I flew to OK to see the pups before I picked mine.  I planned on staying two days and spending a lot of time with the pups but the weather intervened and I had to pick after just an hour or two.  I didn't let Jim pin me down on a color ahead of time because I don't care about it.  I don't care if the dog is purple!  I care about intelligence, nose, pointing ability, and drive!

Pointing labs can be expensive.  I think that if you are going to spend hundreds of hours yourself or pay thousands of dollars for training, you should not let the cost of the puppy be of real great concern to you.  A couple of hundred dollars more for a pup that will train a lot faster is a very good investment.  If cost is a concern, one might try putting a little money away each month while doing research.  By the time you find your litter, you will hopefully have put away enough to pay the difference it might take to get the pup you really want.

Good luck and welcome!

Great advice Brad, I think it's imparative to do your homework! Attending an APLA event is eye opening to say the least. Watching the master test especially. You learn alot from watching and asking questions. But BEWARE, Hunt tests are known to be habit forming

My knowledge base is growing.  I do look forward to attending an ALPA event...also am planning on visiting some Mpls area breeders to get a look at their dogs.  I have also been building info on trainers in the Minnesota area as I want to get some level of professional training.  It is also important to me that I participate (to some extent) during the training so it sb fairly close.

My head is over loaded with pedigrees but I am building info AND trying to avoid an emotional purchase.  Might be OK once I have "cleared" a breeding in my mind.

BTW...in the small world category...my 40 year old son has an 11 year old lab that he purchased from a newspaper add...just a great pet with no particular training.  Turns out its father was Raider.  Raider seems to be quite present in many labs...including Jake in Sauk River.

Thanks...TomCat

TomCat

Check out Poudre River Gun Dogs web site, there is a lot of information there that may help you. Look under trainers tab on this site.

Welcome and have fun

Sent you a private message Tom

There is another breeder in South Dakota that I have bought two dogs from him and I will do it again when the time comes.. High Caliber Labradors in Lennox. He offers training as well and will work with you. When I got them back they were hunting machines. He only does a couple of litters a year so he picks high quality sires to breed his females too.

High Caliber has 2 really nice breedings, Twist & Gator, and Groovy (Duke & Roxy) and Super Trooper, both are great breedings.

Zeke

NewGuy:  Glad to see that one of the kennels you first found favor with is Black Jack Kennels.  Jeff Ports has a great black stud who is a 1.5X GMPR Calumet's Wild Card, MH, QAA with the call name of Deuce.  I have bred to Deuce now twice with my 2.5XGMPR HRCH Reno's Black Ice MH. Pups are due on 2/16/10.   
All pups from their first litter pointed by the time they were 7 weeks of age.  Both parents are very natural pointers.  I agree with others on this forum that said don't pick the kennel.  Pick the parents. Wacth both the parents work and hunt. Watch pups of those two parents work and hunt would even be better. There are many good litters out there these days in all price ranges.  You are doing the right thing by completing your research in advance so you can make an "informed decision".   Good luck with your research!

Check out Holzinger kennels in MN.
Terry produces some of the best.