I am curious what everybody uses for shot size and weight for wild pheasant? What is your preference of choke tubes? Do you prefer more weight or more speed in your choice of shells.  Also what is your shell choice for game farm birds?

I like a 3" mag 12 guage with 1-1/2 to 1-5/8 ounce of 5-6 shot. I haven't experimented much in speed but the 3" shell is worth it. For the pen raised but a light load of 7-1/2 shot works great from my experience.

As far as choke I will use anything from an IC to full depending on the situation.

Wild Birds : 12 ga. 2-3/4", Heavy load 7.5 shot for early season and 6 shot for later on. Improved cylinder.
I don't shoot non-wild birds, so I can't answer that one.



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Strictly 4 shot 1 1/4 oz Rem Express thru Skeet in bottom barrel and IC in Top Barrel with Chokes from Comp-N-Choke. Shot lots of various brands and loads thru a number of choke systems and this set up is at the top. If pushing big loads thru tight chokes spending some time on a grease board just may be an eye opener unless they are bufferred. On Preserve birds and at the hunt test very light loads of #8 or # 7.5- I am talking Winchester AA 1oz 2 3/4 dram called "Xtra-Lite Target Load" . Many an APLA test Chuckar has fallen to these little red shells.

I use what ever is rattling around in the truck box. lol Normally Oct til 1 st Nov I use 6 lead unless on WMA then 4 steel. Once all corn is out and the road hunters shoot all the 1st year birds then I go stricty 4 and 3 if I can find them...Usally use the 3's in the end of my cycle, like 4-5. The areas I hunt, multipules are common, hence the 3's start getting out there..

I use 12 Ga 2-3/4in 1-1/8 or1-1/4 #4 or 6 lead shot thru an IC or Mod choke. Or 20 Ga 3in 1oz copper plated #6 thru a mod choke. If I'm in an area that requires steel shot which is more often than not.. Than its a 12 Ga 3in 1-1/4 #2 thru an improved cyl. Most people say speed kills when it comes to steel . Hard to say tho-- my favorite Duck load is a 12 3in 1-3/8oz #2 slow speed at 1300fps Rem Sportsman load thru an IC. Non wild pheasants, I use the same loads, just let em get out a little bit.
Matt

12ga 1 1/8 oz in 7.5 shot. I use a skeet tube on bottom and IC on top. Later is the year I may move to 6 shot but that about covers it. Now that I think about it, I use 7.5 for just about everything.

Early season: 20ga 1oz copper plated 6's, fast load (Federal and Winchester pattern best for me) through an IC. or 12ga o/u with IC/Mod 1 1/4oz copper plated fast 6's. Later season choke down if flushing long or stay with the IC if cold and holding for points. That is the nice thing about the o/u, IC/Mod always works.

I think 7.5's are fine early season but I like consistency so I shoot the hard 6's all the time. I also prefer speed over pellet count but I understand some people have had patterning problems with the faster loads. I seem to take a lot of close shots and therefore do not like the heavier loads. 1oz of good shot seems to kill pheasants within any range that I feel is reasonable to shoot.

Realeased birds (training) - the cheapest 7.5-9's I can find.

If I was you OKhunter I would set up some cardboard and pattern your gun from 4 shot to 7.5 shot and see what patterns the best in your gun!! (I do like docs theory, But in my O/U 5 sot patterns the best)

I like to take a few long shots, and have found that the larger shot definitly works better for me. In my 20 gauge (which I shoot most of the time) I shoot the Fiocci Golden Pheasant load. It is 1.25 oz nickle #4s at 1200 fps. In my 12 gauge I shoot a blue dot load in a gold medal case. It is 1.5 oz hard #4s at 1300 fps. Any time that I switch to smaller shot I am rewarded with more cripples.

I agree with Matt on the steel shot. My favorite duck load has always been 1 3/8 of steel #2s in a 3 inch shell. I always shot the Winchesters (Dry-Locks?) which I think are only 1250 fps.

In general I have always had better luck with larger shot and payload as compared to smaller shot and payload at a higher speed.

Just my $0.02 worth.

When I do get to go I use 5-6. As for choke if I thank they will hold Improved cylinder, I they have been hunted a lot then I use Mod. I have never udes a full on upland.

12 gauge 2 3/4 inch 6 shot and 20 gauge 3 inch 6 shot. i use IC on my 12 and my 20 is an OU with a fixed choke.

We have operated a guide service for many years in SD and there are many combinations that work great for some and poorly for others. Your confidence in the load and your guns choke can be as important as the type of gun or size load you are using.
When I provide shells I look at the experience level of the shooter. 7 1/2's are the safest because they dont have the energy at longer distances. I have documented years of crippel vs kill and 7 1/2's and 6's defonately cripple more birds than 4's with our hunters. However if you put a 4 in some peoples barrel it just isnt safe to be a blocker at 75 yards. I only allow 7 1/2 shot the first week, after that it isnt too good an Idea in general. There are some heavier loads with good chilled or copper shot that are ok in 7 1/2 however. As the season progresses and the birds hides get tough and feathers harden we move to 5's or 4's, again depending on the skill level. We use from 3 1/4 dram for the beginner and up to 4 1/4 dram for the trusted season vet that will help finish a flying cripple thats been hit and needs to be finished in late Dec. If I were simply wanting to put meat on the table with out worrying about cost 3" copper 5's would almost atways work if you used an IC or skeet choke in the early season then close it down until you end up with a full choke in late Dec. This is what works in SD I would do things differently in different parts of the country especially when there are chuckar or quali as well as pheasant. As for me I use 2 3/4" 4's always and increase from 3 3/4 dram to 4 1/4 dram by season end. I still shoot a full choke 30 inch model twelve. Generally the only time I am shooting is when birds are hit and are still flying I am NEVER the first to shoot but if I do neet to shoot Im usually the last one shooting. It iwould surprise some people how far a bird can be dropped if he's been hit already and you have a big enough load. (ellevate and lead)
It does get sickening cleaning birds and having to throw away birds with gang green from previous wounds most every evening. I think it would amaze people at just how many fly away birds end up dieing that are hit with too small of loads.

I think most people dont pattern their gun and have no idea what their shot pattern looks like. On top of that many have the school of thought that larger pellets and more choke are neaded on late season birds etc. Its been my experience that most birds taken with a shotgun are taken within 35 yds and unless you are a competitive sporting clays or fitasc shooter who regularly practices at ranges beyond that your chances of connecting are pretty slim. Id leave the full chokes and 4s at home, stick with ic and mod chokes and only shoot at birds within your ethical ability to make clean shots on game. I have no doubt as a guide you see all kinds of guys blazing away at anything that gets in the air, but even cleaning up others shot, pattern your gun and I think youll find youll be better off with a mod choke and 6s at lower velocities.

And if you dont believe me, there is plenty of literature on the retained velocity of pellets at given ranges and the effect of recoil on shooting effectiveness. The 1500 fps loads just arnt necessary and probably do more harm than good.

BTW, I also shoot ducks with #6 bizmuth in a 23/4 load through an IC choke and use #4s for Canadas.

Well now that you mention patterning and having an idea of your gun shot ect I do know exactly what my gun pattens best with. I have shot more than 10,000 rounds threw my old full choke model 12. My son did a science project with the mod 12 full choke and a Barretta 686 with various chokes, using 8 different loads from various manufacturers and 2 of our reload recipes. Patterns were measured and for lack of a better tool to measure energy our local phone company provided phone books. We shot at 40 yards. The very best pattern came from a steel full choke with copper 5's out of the 686. The next best was my mod 12 with 4's and a very close second if I might add. As I said before using what you feel most confident in is best, I cant hit much with the 686 so I dont shoot it. If you feel best shooting at 35 or less yards with 6's then thats best for you.

As for fellas shooting wildly its rare usually just the newbys but we visit about it and usually ends. The worst is fellas that hit a bird and drop their gun to see if it falls and then watch it fly away wounded. That to me is unethical.

I consider the energy and penetration a very important part of any pattern. When researching one must also know that each mfgr has different wads, pressures, powders and qualities of shot not all 6's are the same. I also have seen many birds taken at 35 or less yards and 6's work but 4's or 5's later on, from the same shell, are better in my humble opinion. I think if you look in the publications that Fiocci, Federal, Winchester and Remmington each put out, you will see that if I were to shoot 6's for clean up it would be a waste of lead at 50 yards. I realize everyone in this forun hits with a clean kill on the first shot, but sometimes a bird that flushes at 25 yards will take 10 yards to clear the dog and be high enough for a safe shot. Many times a bird can be hit and not die. What do you do then when the bird is at 40 pluss yards for the second shot. Ethically, I guess one should practice to hit well enough to kill on the first shot.
Feel free to chime in LeRoy Brad and Andy. I know what you are thinking.

I like lead 2 3/4 in #5's or steel #3, or #4's. Hunting public land, wild, South Dakota roosters calls for a heavier load and a larger shot. Although lead #6 magnum 2 3/4 inch will also work. These are tough birds and light shot like a 7 1/2 just doesn't cut it, especially later in the year. I only use modified or full chokes, usually the modified in one barrel and the full in the second if you hunt with an over and under. If I only had one barrel I think it would be modified. But like others have mentioned, pattern your gun, and know the situation, wild versus pen raised, etc...

I think you misread a little. I said I think most birds people hit and kill are taken within 35 yards. You definately need a tighter choke if you are going to be taking 50yd shots, but Id still argue that youd have a higher hit % with a mod choke than a full. I dont think half of the people who take to the field can/should take that shot. I think the results most have at the long trap line show that and even competitive sporting clays shooters are really challenged by the longer shots of FITASC. Basically, what I am getting at is the hit % drops off drastically for most people at the ranges you are talking about.


I do alot of reloading and have learned alot from the old timers on the sporting clays circuit. I In my testing the setback you get on the 3" high velocity loads for upland do more harm than good. How did you define your "best pattern". A full choke will certainly give you the most pellets in pattern, but does it give you the best combination of forgiveness and pellet count? Have you miked your bore and barrell on your model twelve to determine if it really is a full choke ".035"? This and alot of factors play in. These have long been topics of the competitive shooting/ reloading community. I just throw them out because a lot of people dont know alot of this stuff before heading afield.

Sounds like you have done some work on the subject.

Not sure how you measure forgiveness. But we counted the no. of pellets also taking into consideration the arrangement of the pattern looking at wholes in the pattern then measured the same pattern a certain no. of pages into toe phone book. The book was located behind a 4x4 sheet of paper that was used for the target for each load.

Not sure but I think federal has energy charts for comparisons of energy between shot sizes.

For targets I shoot 7 1/2 or 8 Fiocci at 1200 fps in of course my mod 12 full choke. I have a Y mod 12 with a mod choke but dont shoot the gun as well.