rugerred
New Member
Posts:82
Wisconsin
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| 02 Mar 2010 04:29 PM |
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With the season over in a couple of weeks, what kind of training can I do to further along the point? In spring and summer I usally work on water and duck type training, but this being the first PL I would like some other options. I can get pigeons in the off season. |
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Jere
Basic Member
Posts:425
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| 02 Mar 2010 09:22 PM |
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Are there wild game birds where you are? Do the laws of the state allow you to work dogs in their habitat out of hunting season (you should not during a reasonable breathing period around nesting and early chick growth even if the law allows)? If the answers are yes, yes - that's what you should do.
Your pup is VERY young for any formal "pointing dog" work. If it were mine I wouldn't do anything along those lines but expose it to opportunities to learn about birds, habitat and such until after going through as much of that stuff I could next hunting season. Then I would expect to start steadiness, "manners on birds" work next spring with pigeons - assuming the dog is really pointing by then.
Jere |
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rugerred
New Member
Posts:82
Wisconsin
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| 03 Mar 2010 06:42 AM |
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Jere, almost all areas where there are birds are closed during nesting season (dog must be on a leash). There isnt many wild birds left in the state, and the farmers dont really let you in during the spring. So your saying not to worry to much about point training till next year after he has a season of hunting under him? I do plan to duck hunt him and I have several places I can do water work with him. Pup is 5 mos. |
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Jere
Basic Member
Posts:425
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| 06 Mar 2010 11:36 PM |
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That's the way I would do it - but if any opportunities arise between now and next open season to let the pup out and hunt for birds (without killing birds), I would avail myself of those.
I'd suggest you not think about this stuff as "point training" as a plain language interpretation of that term would imply. One doesn't train pointing. Only after the young dog does show it has natural pointing instincts (which, judging from what you've posted, yours appears to have) do we need to think about "steadying" the dog.
The benefits of pup playing with birds for a season before steadying are many. You may find very little "steadying" is required to reach the hunting behavior you want. The pup will learn how to find birds under a great variety of conditions and will expand its love and desire to do so. A steady dog that can't find birds is of little value.
Jere |
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rugerred
New Member
Posts:82
Wisconsin
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| 07 Mar 2010 07:40 PM |
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makes sense, thanks |
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keskam
Veteran Member
Posts:1339
Pierce, Colorado
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| 07 Mar 2010 08:19 PM |
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When i do mine they usally get a bird or two a week pen raised or wild a bird is a bird to them, hunting is hunting to them, retrieving is retrieving to them, the more birds that you get a chance to steady him the better he will be But JMO..  Wild birds are better but we all are not blessed with 200 birds per square mile. |
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HRCH Rocky Mountain Rosco SH
APR HR Lady Satin of Black Forest JH
HRCH Satin's Jumpin Jedi JH
HR Chelsea Snow Angel JH
GMPR HR KB's Snakey Jake of Poudre River JH
APR HR KB's It's Showtime of Bearpoint (Star) JH
HR KB's Loaded To Go Allie JH
SHR KB's Blazin' White Thunder (Blaze)
KB'S Misty's Mighty Trooper Dusty
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Jere
Basic Member
Posts:425
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| 08 Mar 2010 12:54 PM |
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Kevin, I certainly don't have any heartburn over the pup "getting birds" regularly as you imply. BUT, if the pen raised birds are dumb as a post and/or fly poorly more harm than good can easily be done messing with them. "Holdover" preserve birds from the last season might be a good option for folks who have access to them but have few wild birds available by fact or law. Planted 'pennies' have limited utility for the pup anyway at this stage. They just don't have the smarts or behaviors of wild birds. If the pup has to be physically restrained to prevent capture of them it isn't gonna be learning anything useful about "hunting" on the end of a rope; and you're in fact working on steadiness anyway - a chore best left until that other learning is well along. IMO
Jere |
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keskam
Veteran Member
Posts:1339
Pierce, Colorado
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| 08 Mar 2010 03:35 PM |
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I totally agree with you Jere, But some places like were i live and i am training for the APLA test in April. I have to use pen raised birds, What i do is drive the 4 wheeler and throw the birds from it say maybe 6, go do some yard work with another dog come back in 30 minutes and hunt the field (birds are not dizzied) The birds are active, The only problem with chakars is they will call them all together in a bunch, so you have to really seperate them, You go through more birds this way, but better results in not getting caught, and not letting the dog get to close.
If all i was doing was just hunting them, then yes i would head out east and find a few farmers were i could go and run the dog and let the birds teach them |
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HRCH Rocky Mountain Rosco SH
APR HR Lady Satin of Black Forest JH
HRCH Satin's Jumpin Jedi JH
HR Chelsea Snow Angel JH
GMPR HR KB's Snakey Jake of Poudre River JH
APR HR KB's It's Showtime of Bearpoint (Star) JH
HR KB's Loaded To Go Allie JH
SHR KB's Blazin' White Thunder (Blaze)
KB'S Misty's Mighty Trooper Dusty
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rugerred
New Member
Posts:82
Wisconsin
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| 09 Mar 2010 07:59 AM |
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Its tough here in WI to get on wild birds, I have been mainly going to the preserve and hunting scratch birds that are missed by other hunters. I do release a few each week to make sure the owner makes a little money. I have mainly been trying to get the dog on birds period. He works very nice but yet still doesnt always grasp the idea. Constantly sniffing in checking brush but I have watched a bird run 20 yards ahead and he didnt wind or see it. It has been a combo of me tracking in the snow and getting him in the area and him finding them on his own. That being said he has found 3 cripples that I would not have found without him. So we go from great to ok. He is a very calm dog in his own and it is a little different for me. I have seen very good dogs pass by a bird also. I just was looking for exercises I can use to maybe help steady him. I get points about half the time. Again he is only 5 mos. |
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Jere
Basic Member
Posts:425
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| 09 Mar 2010 10:19 PM |
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Posted By keskam on 08 Mar 2010 03:35 PM
... I have to use pen raised birds, What i do is drive the 4 wheeler and throw the birds from it say maybe 6, go do some yard work with another dog come back in 30 minutes and hunt the field (birds are not dizzied) The birds are active, The only problem with chakars is they will call them all together in a bunch,...
Kevin, if the ground you train on is yours, or otherwise tied up, you might try chukars from a recall pen. they will recall. Google 'Chukar recall pen'
You may be able to slow them down - to keep them from grouping up and from running before the dog - by hobbling them. Bill Gibbons does this effectively in the desert. I don't know whether it will work well in grass. Tie the two legs together with knitting yarn. Make it long enough that they can walk but can not stretch their legs far enough apart to run.
Jere |
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Freddie Adams
New Member
Posts:77
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| 10 Mar 2010 08:33 AM |
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Same problem here, not many wild birds.
I have tried just about every thing with pen raised quail. The johnny house helped a ton to flight condition the birds. I feed them at the top so they have to fly up to eat and drink. Even trash birds learn to fly.
The next best thing, has been to create a wild bird encounter with launchers, and I see a big improvement over planting pen/quail. The launchers will for sure back-em up!
Chuckers are harder to get and a little pricy here. But when my quail are gone, I plan to replace with chuckers.
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Jere
Basic Member
Posts:425
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| 10 Mar 2010 10:22 PM |
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Posted By FJR on 10 Mar 2010 08:33 AM
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1. I have tried just about every thing with pen raised quail. The johnny house helped a ton to flight condition the birds. I feed them at the top so they have to fly up to eat and drink. Even trash birds learn to fly.
2. The next best thing, has been to create a wild bird encounter with launchers, and I see a big improvement over planting pen/quail. The launchers will for sure back-em up!
1. That's partly why "we" start the steadying process with wild caught pigeons.
2. I know you'r rather see than read, but you might like Martha Greenlee's just released book Training with Mo, www.gladerunpress.com/, Lot's of launcher use within the West system there. Releasers work well too but I'm not sure they are covered in the book.
Jere |
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Freddie Adams
New Member
Posts:77
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| 22 Mar 2010 04:29 PM |
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Jere, I will check it out...Man I hate them pigeons, I beleave they $hit out twice what they eat...lol...Thanks |
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TonyP
New Member
Posts:26
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| 23 Mar 2010 12:03 PM |
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Does anyone know of a device , other than a launcher, that can be used to release birds from a distance? When I use my launcher, Magnum will charge in on it full blast. He does not see the birds launched and goes straight to the launcher. He will point birds that are NOT in a launcher and when they fly he will track them with his eyes. I have been working on a device, but have not quite figured out how w/o using a big model plane transmitter.  |
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tater
New Member
Posts:4
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| 23 Mar 2010 12:54 PM |
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Try planting a shackled bird 10 to 15 feet down wind of the launcher. When the dog points release the launcher bird.
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Jere
Basic Member
Posts:425
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| 23 Mar 2010 04:56 PM |
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Posted By TonyP on 23 Mar 2010 12:03 PM
Does anyone know of a device , other than a launcher, that can be used to release birds from a distance? When I use my launcher, Magnum will charge in on it full blast. He does not see the birds launched and goes straight to the launcher. He will point birds that are NOT in a launcher and when they fly he will track them with his eyes. I have been working on a device, but have not quite figured out how w/o using a big model plane transmitter.
Brad Higgins makes and sells a releaser which may do just what you want:
http://www.higginsgundogs.com/USINGHIGGINSREMOTERELEASERS.htm
You can use regular launcher electronics (Dogtra, TT, etc) with a "releaser".
There are discussions on the net about using other radio control devices as well. google 'elsema'
You sound "handy" you may be able to make your own releaser.
A very simple design would use a tether or jesse on the bird's leg held at the loose end by a wire rod tied to a string or remote controlled solenoid which passes through two screw eyes in a chunk of wood and a hole in the jesse. Pull the string or activate the solenoid, the wire comes out of the jesse and the bird is free.
Jere |
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