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 Thursday, May 17, 2012
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Pointing Lab Forums
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What comes after 4 x GMPR
Last Post 21 Sep 2011 09:42 AM by Paco. 31 Replies. |
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redlabel
Basic Member
Posts:166
South Dakota
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| 13 Sep 2011 08:09 PM |
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Dave Furman
If you want to talk with someone that hunts PL's other than Grouse hunting there are a few people here from SD that guide with PL's for pheasant guide services. Others that dont guide but do hunt pheas and prarie chicken with PL's. As a matter of fact most SD guide services run Labs in general exclusively. note I said most not all |
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| Be all you can be |
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bsmiley
Veteran Member
Posts:1063
Fishers Indiana
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| 13 Sep 2011 09:13 PM |
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It also strikes me that if one of the goals of the organization is to "promote" pointing labs, that rather than put precious resources towards providing more opportunities for dogs that already have top titles, that different priorities might dictate putting effort into broadening the reach of the organization and providing either opportunities in other areas that don't currently have access to the density of pointing labs that, say, the upper midwest does... Dave, I dont know you but you just summed up where this discussion ended last time it came up. (BTW Dave, you will find that most people on here hunt their PL's. If you have a question, ask it, it will generally get a lot of responses.) There are a handfull of people that are active with the PL's and the APLA that would love to see some sort of "Nationals" type event - I personally think it would be neat but there are a lot of challenges to an event like that. The question is whether the resources justify the event and whether it means anything to anyone outside maybe 50 or so people. I dont have an answer to that question. I cant see myself attending something like that if it were after early October because it would be sacrificing hunting time for dog games. In answer to the question STK: Remember the "APLA" does not put on events now. They are requested by a test Chair and Secretary and those individuals find grounds, birds, judges, help, etc.. and the APLA basically sanctions it. If you want to put an idea forward and have it receive the best consideration, then it would be best to work through it completely (why, where, who, when, how). That is, realistically think through the logistics of it, what the expense to entry fee is estimated to be then present it to the board. There are a lot of different things mentioned in this thread and there have been other ideas in the past. Some were just impractical to try to implement. Others went by the way side because most people felt that there was just not enough wide-spread appeal for an event of its type. But, hey just because something may not have worked out 5 years ago doesnt mean we shouldnt discuss it again a few years later. Again, this conversation is good to have every once in a while and if you think something new would work then think through it and present a case for why to the board. |
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Cruz, 4XGMPR HRCH MH ("CAT 6")
Yeager, MPR HR (Master Pointing Lap Dog)
Cody, 2XGMPR, MH (BAMF,RIP Friend)
Runnin',Gunnin' & Pickin' Up the Chickens!
www.browngundogs.com
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Kwazilla
New Member
Posts:38
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| 14 Sep 2011 05:51 AM |
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APLA could use HRC and AKC retriever test to advance and just test upland. What I mean is started dog HRC can earn Started in APLA, Seasoned HRC can earn APR and so forth.. It would free up a lot of time and focus on pointing aspect and other new venues for APLA.. These APLA test are so long because of the upland... There's my opinion...lol |
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Liv2Hnt
Advanced Member
Posts:501
Overland Park, KS
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| 14 Sep 2011 09:54 AM |
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Just a couple of thoughts....
I personally dont want the APLA to move in to any sort of field trial type event. There are plenty of shoot to retrieve events available and as a HT organization, we can all support the success of each others dogs against the standard we have set as an organization. NBDCA or other events like in mI are a great way to showcase the capabilities of PLs, but I do not want this organization to become a my dog is better than your dog org.
I personally wanted to run Rid this fall in the APLA, but looking at tests numbers decided not to. The fact of the matter is were still a very small organization and while we have grown to a more healthy size and with more HTs, a 4x in the lineup may take the place of a dog working toward their first master pass. Believe me, I agree that I want to and will continue to run in the APLA. Those of you who have handled a dog at that level have an idea of what it takes and how fun it is as a handler.
To Kwazilla. To me, what makes the APLA so special and what makes our tests so difficult is that we do both retriever work and upland work in the same day, and a miix that ups the difficulty if you do two tests one weekend. It is a lot of balance in training and is much easier to tune a dog up for just one or the other. A master level APLA dog who exhibits wild enthusiasm in the upland field and pinpoint control on the retriever side is a work of art. Its not easy to create or duplicate, but it sure is nice to look at.
I really hope that we have a whole slough of 4x dogs at some point, but we only have 32 right now and I know of at least 25% of those were in the last two years. While I am certainly interested, a national 4x invitational would be open to very few dogs at this point. I hope we can get to that point in the future and I would certainly support a longer 2X GMPR or higher National invitational similar to the AKC Master national as a way to showcase the top level of our organization. Again, though I would want it to be a HT and not FT organization as the relationships and support of these dogs by the other members is key to our long term survival.
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| Edward McNally
Amateur trainer/ owner/ rookie handler of:
4 X GMPR HRCH McNally's Right Stuff Ridley (5 MH Passes) |
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bsmiley
Veteran Member
Posts:1063
Fishers Indiana
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| 15 Sep 2011 10:05 AM |
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Wanna "step-up" to the next level on a "Nationals" type test?
How about running part of the upland in heavy cover with a GPS collar and incorporating a double mark and a blind into the upland series. To me, that shows the excellence and versatility of a gun dog way more than an enhanced technical retriever series. Just sayin. |
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Cruz, 4XGMPR HRCH MH ("CAT 6")
Yeager, MPR HR (Master Pointing Lap Dog)
Cody, 2XGMPR, MH (BAMF,RIP Friend)
Runnin',Gunnin' & Pickin' Up the Chickens!
www.browngundogs.com
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Mike Stallman
New Member
Posts:9
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| 15 Sep 2011 11:56 AM |
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As a newcomer, I love to hear the enthusiasm of some of the APLA members.
What attracted me to a PL was the vesatility of the dog. Until Big Ben, I had just hunted with Retrievers. So I really like the format of the APLA because if I go out and hunt in Eastern Colorado, I will most likely hit the Rivers or ponds for Ducks at Sunrise then find some fields for upland later on in the day or near 8 am. So, the tests really replicates a hunting experience.
So far the thing I don't like about the APLA tests are if we fail one part then we are done for the event....Kind of sucks if you are just a amatuer with one pup. I would like to travel to Parsons KS this Oct 1 with Ben, but hate the thought of failing the opening blind for his AP and being done!
My friend has German Shorthairs. We couldn't take them to the River to Hunt because they would freeze....LOL But with Ben I will be able to go out and hit the ducks and then work the upland.
But I like the APLA. It might be nice to find a hunt test for owners with their 3x, 3.5X and 4X to Run in. Or they could get new pups and train them???
Ed, will you be in Parsons Kansas for the hunt test on Oct 1-2?
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DocFritz
Advanced Member
Posts:621
SW Iowa
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| 15 Sep 2011 01:01 PM |
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A natioanl type event would not have to be just for 4Xers. It could be open for all 4Xers and any other WHATEVERXG with two master passes that year..... |
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Fritz Baier D.C.
GMHR-II WR SR MPR APR CPR Baier's Mighty Waldimar
MHR WR HR SR CPR Baier's Lady Gabrielle
Baier's Lady Legacy of TruPoint |
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keskam
Veteran Member
Posts:1586
Pierce, Colorado
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| 15 Sep 2011 01:45 PM |
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Posted By Mike Stallman on 15 Sep 2011 11:56 AM
As a newcomer, I love to hear the enthusiasm of some of the APLA members.
What attracted me to a PL was the vesatility of the dog. Until Big Ben, I had just hunted with Retrievers. So I really like the format of the APLA because if I go out and hunt in Eastern Colorado, I will most likely hit the Rivers or ponds for Ducks at Sunrise then find some fields for upland later on in the day or near 8 am. So, the tests really replicates a hunting experience.
So far the thing I don't like about the APLA tests are if we fail one part then we are done for the event....Kind of sucks if you are just a amatuer with one pup. I would like to travel to Parsons KS this Oct 1 with Ben, but hate the thought of failing the opening blind for his AP and being done!
My friend has German Shorthairs. We couldn't take them to the River to Hunt because they would freeze....LOL But with Ben I will be able to go out and hit the ducks and then work the upland.
But I like the APLA. It might be nice to find a hunt test for owners with their 3x, 3.5X and 4X to Run in. Or they could get new pups and train them???
Ed, will you be in Parsons Kansas for the hunt test on Oct 1-2?
Mike we have all been there, At my first APLA test i had a dog named Snakey Jake,,,,I was excited and he was too, I said hunt-em up and he tore away from me like he was shot out of a cannon,
bam flushed one bird,, bam then another, then A POINT 4 seconds and flushed the bird and chased it forever and back,, Steve (2 blackdogs) was gunnin for me, I looked at the judges and said am i done? and they said YEP........
He is a 4X GMPR now and i would bet others have a similar story,
I know it is tough when a dog fails one part of the event (and expensive),,,but that is what these dogs are about, The ultimate gun dog ,, Retrieves , Bilnds and upland, all in the same day,,,, They have to have it all....
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4XGMPR HRCH KBs Snakey Jake of Poudre River SH
APR HRCH Lady Satin of Black Forest JH
MPR HRCH It's Showtime of Bearpoint (Star) JH
CP HR Blazin' White Thunder JH
CP SHR KB'S Misty's Mighty Trooper Dusty
CP SHR KB'S Princess Sage
CP SHR KB'S They Call Me "Beau"
CP KB'S Right To The Point Ike
KB'S Lil' Husker Champ
KB'S Hunters Dream |
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keskam
Veteran Member
Posts:1586
Pierce, Colorado
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| 15 Sep 2011 01:49 PM |
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Posted By DocFritz on 15 Sep 2011 01:01 PM
A natioanl type event would not have to be just for 4Xers. It could be open for all 4Xers and any other WHATEVERXG with two master passes that year.....
HaHaaa  Yea by the time they get this passed by the board most 4XGMPRs will be retired........  |
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4XGMPR HRCH KBs Snakey Jake of Poudre River SH
APR HRCH Lady Satin of Black Forest JH
MPR HRCH It's Showtime of Bearpoint (Star) JH
CP HR Blazin' White Thunder JH
CP SHR KB'S Misty's Mighty Trooper Dusty
CP SHR KB'S Princess Sage
CP SHR KB'S They Call Me "Beau"
CP KB'S Right To The Point Ike
KB'S Lil' Husker Champ
KB'S Hunters Dream |
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2Blackdogs!
Veteran Member
Posts:1662
Kansas City Area - GO CHIEF !
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| 15 Sep 2011 02:54 PM |
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Oh yes Kevin- I was there. Jake found not only the chukies fun to chase but there were about 1000 red winged black birds that also added to the excitement..hehe
Interesting thread- |
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Liv2Hnt
Advanced Member
Posts:501
Overland Park, KS
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| 16 Sep 2011 08:42 AM |
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Mike, Im going to try and pop in on the test. Im signed up to run an AKC MH test the same weekend and its about 45 miles away..........part of the answer of what comes after 4 x is titles and showing that PLs can do top level retriever work in other venues. I hope I get to meet you and that pup. Good luck on the APR if you decide to come run. Otherwise hope to see you at the MO test in the spring.
I think there may be some merit in a National HT 2-3 day test so you could do it in a weekend, with more series, for highly titled dogs......I agree with Bruce we would add in another upland series of some sort, add in the possibilities of triples and double blinds on the retriever side..........something certainly to contemplate to give us another excuse to keep the dogs in top form and get together. |
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| Edward McNally
Amateur trainer/ owner/ rookie handler of:
4 X GMPR HRCH McNally's Right Stuff Ridley (5 MH Passes) |
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Paco
Advanced Member
Posts:856
On a trout stream in NW, MI.
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| 21 Sep 2011 09:42 AM |
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Hunting with a dog that has some serious tools.
Guiding with a dog that you can be a true partner with.
More money for gas etc. to get to more hunting.
Or as somone else said a new pup a new challenge to try and do it again.
I doubt I will ever go for the 4x again, but you never know. When I started it was the GMPR that was the holy grail, kinda pissed me off when they changed it. Guess the dogs are getting better though and that's a good thing. |
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Founding member- Michigan Mafia (aka MM ;)
4X GMPR HRCH Fraquelli's Sauble River "GATOR"
GMPR HRCH HRKs Liberators Outlaw "RONDO" SH
GMPR VeraGators Smokin' Diablo of G'Force "SMOKEY"
Trust your dogs - Let 'em Roll
www.gforceretrievers.com
Outlaw Upland~Waterfowl Labs
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