Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 05 Jul 2010 05:47 PM |
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Posted By Maximillion on 05 Jul 2010 02:04 PM
Doc, I know you were not, I did email them Today and asked. Now to wait and see what is said
I'd be very interested in seeing their answers...... Not that they will, but some companies have ways of skirting the whole truth.
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 05 Jul 2010 06:06 PM |
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Posted By ASTOVER on 05 Jul 2010 04:32 PM
Great discussion guys, going along the lines that no one product is perfect for every dog. What is your opinion (anyone) on the Loyall product line from Nutrena?
http://www.loyallpetfood.com/loyall.../index.jsp
Ingredients: Poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine and omega-6 fatty acids), whole corn, brewers rice, poultry fat (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols), whole wheat, beet pulp, natural chicken flavoring, flaxseed (natural source of omega-3 fatty acids),. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . etc . . . . . . . . . . . . . . menadione sodium bisulfite complex
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The first ingredient in this dog food is poultry by-product meal… a dry “rendered” product of slaughterhouse waste. It’s made from what’s left of slaughtered poultry after all the prime cuts have been removed.
In a nutshell… poultry by-products are the unsavory and inedible leftovers deemed “unfit for human consumption”.
This stuff can contain almost anything (although Loyall promises to use “no beaks or feet”. What’s more, this particular item doesn’t even specify the actual source animal.
The second ingredient is corn. Although there’s no way to know for sure, it’s reasonable to assume the corn described here is similar to the kind used to make feed for livestock.
Feed corn can be contaminated with insects, mites and molds.
Many blame corn for chronic canine allergies. But those allergies are probably more a result of what’s in the corn… than the corn itself.
The third ingredient is brewers rice. Brewers rice represents the small grain fragments left over after milling whole rice.
This is a cheap cereal grain by-product and not likely a quality ingredient.
The fifth ingredient is wheat. Wheat (as it’s used for making most pet foods) is almost never of human-grade quality. Like corn, it can also be contaminated with insects and their associated by-products.
Plus… wheat has the rather dubious distinction of being one of the most common causes of canine food allergies.
If the Flaxseed is not ground, it is non-digestible. The Omega-3 that it provides (ALA) is only partially converted to EPA and none at all is converted into DHA.
Unfortunately, this Loyall Dog Food also contains menadione… a controversial form of vitamin K linked to liver toxicity, allergies and the abnormal break-down of red blood cells.
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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rugerred
New Member
Posts:85
Wisconsin
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| 05 Jul 2010 06:07 PM |
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That loyal puppy has the highest protien / fat I think I have seen. |
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sproulman
New Member
Posts:52
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| 05 Jul 2010 08:00 PM |
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corn, thats what happened with DIAMOND DOG FOOD.a truck load of moldy corn got thru and killed a lot of dogs.
thats when i stopped DIAMOND dog food. |
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 06 Jul 2010 07:25 AM |
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Posted By rugerred on 05 Jul 2010 06:07 PM
That loyal puppy has the highest protien / fat I think I have seen. Loyal Puppy Food :
| Crude Protein: 31% MIN |
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| Crude Fat: 20% MIN | Totally ridiculous. Goes against all scientific literature for a Large Breed dog.
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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rickreading
New Member
Posts:20
St. Francis, WI
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| 06 Jul 2010 08:36 AM |
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Here is the ingredient list and breakdown of Purina Pro Plan(Large breed puppy formula). This is what my vet recommended I feed my pup (6 1/2 months).
How does this stack up against some of the other brands listed here. I see the comments on the value of the "meal" and I see the oonly meal that appears here is a fish meal and that is a good deal down the ingredient list.
The guaranteed analysis shows crude protein at 28% and crude fat at 13%. Is this more in line with the accepted norms?
Any comments would be appreciated.
Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine), whole grain corn, whole grain wheat, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), pea fiber, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine) , animal digest, calcium phosphate, dried egg product, fish oil, salt, potassium chloride, potassium citrate, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium carbonate, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, calcium iodate, Vitamin D-3 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite.
F-4457
Crude Protein (Min) 28.0 %
Crude Fat (Min) 13.0 %
Crude Fiber (Max) 6.0 %
Moisture (Max) 12.0 %
Linoleic Acid (Min) 1.6 %
Calcium (Ca) (Min) 1.1 %
Phosphorus (P) (Min) 0.8 %
Selenium (Se) (Min) 0.30 mg/kg
Vitamin A (Min) 15,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E (Min) 100 IU/kg
Docosahexaenoic Acid* (DHA)(Min) 0.05 %
Glucosamine* (Min) 500 ppm
Glutamine* (Min) 1.0 %
*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.
CALORIE CONTENT:
Metabolizable Energy (ME)
3586 kcal/kg
1630 kcal/lb
382 kkcal/cup
Digestable Energy
1700 kcal/lb
398 kcal/cup
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| Rick Reading;
Founding Member SWUBHA |
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sproulman
New Member
Posts:52
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| 06 Jul 2010 08:34 PM |
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boy, a lot of views on this topic.if you go to your local feed mill,sometimes they will order in the dog food you like.
this is what i did with CANIDAE ALL LIFE STAGES.now he says its his no.1 seller at mill.he had to drop other brands like diamond dog food that had moldy corn.
it cost me 34 dollars for 40 pd bag. i buy 2 bags or have 2 bags on hand all time because if for some reason he cannot get it anymore it gives me time to break toby in with another dog food.
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 07 Jul 2010 06:03 AM |
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Rick R See my prior posts concerning ; Chicken, as a first ingredient "Animal Fat" (mystery fat -- needs to say what kind of animal(s) ) Corn Gluten Glutens are inferior grain-based proteins lacking many of the amino acids dogs need to sustain life. poultry by-product meal (allowed to contain a lot of crap) whole grain wheat (the most common allergin to dogs) fish meal (they don't say what kind of fish -- could also contain ethoxyquin) animal digest (contains animals that died of disease, were euthanized and may still contain phenobarbitol etc) menadione sodium bisulfite complex (causes a particular form of anemia in dogs) The Protein looks a little too high -- Fat looks good. Just my opinion, but I sure wouldn't feed it. . |
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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rickreading
New Member
Posts:20
St. Francis, WI
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| 07 Jul 2010 10:36 AM |
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Doc,
Thanks for the info. I am seriuosly considering switching to Blue Buffalo. I know it is available through the pet supply store where I normally shop and after reading all the discussions here, it appears to be a better choice than the Pro Plan I currently use for both my 11 year old GSP and my new lab pup (6 1/2 months).
Just sent the pup for 3 months of training along with a supply of pro plan, but the small investment in her future will be well worth the cost of tossing a couple of bags of pro plan.
Thanks to everyone for their input, while at times I found this discussion as confusing as a poitical debate, in the end it was all good information.
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| Rick Reading;
Founding Member SWUBHA |
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sproulman
New Member
Posts:52
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| 07 Jul 2010 11:08 AM |
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Posted By rickreading on 07 Jul 2010 10:36 AM
Doc,
Thanks for the info. I am seriuosly considering switching to Blue Buffalo. I know it is available through the pet supply store where I normally shop and after reading all the discussions here, it appears to be a better choice than the Pro Plan I currently use for both my 11 year old GSP and my new lab pup (6 1/2 months).
Just sent the pup for 3 months of training along with a supply of pro plan, but the small investment in her future will be well worth the cost of tossing a couple of bags of pro plan.
Thanks to everyone for their input, while at times I found this discussion as confusing as a poitical debate, in the end it was all good information.
most of breeders use pro plan here locally.they get discounts for using it.my vet uses SCIENCE DIET.again he gets kick backs,i guess thats a nice way to say it.
both a not very good dog foods from what i read.lets say in middle of good/bad.
you have watch as doc e said, they change food and add things to make it look better.
those 10 i listed are very good foods, not perfect but better than PRO PLAN .the price may be cheaper or equal to PRO PLAN TOO.
i get canidae for 34 dollars for 40 pd bag.i was paying over 40 for food like PRO PLAN.
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Maximillion
Basic Member
Posts:337
Clayton, North Carolina
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| 13 Jul 2010 11:22 AM |
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Posted By Doc_E on 05 Jul 2010 05:47 PM
Posted By Maximillion on 05 Jul 2010 02:04 PM
Doc, I know you were not, I did email them Today and asked. Now to wait and see what is said
I'd be very interested in seeing their answers...... Not that they will, but some companies have ways of skirting the whole truth.
Doc here is what Blue Buf replied back to me Sent this to you in a PM also:
Hello Richard,
Thank you for taking your time to contact BLUE. We stabilize all our fats, fish, and oils with natural, mixed tocopherols, vitamin A & C, oil of rosemary. Ethoxyquin is not added to any of our ingredients or formulas, which is verified by the ingredient panels. We take every precaution to ensure that our fish meal is ethoxiquin free and preserved only with natural preservatives.
Thank you for your concern. Please feel free to contact me with any further questions.
Regards,
Linda
Blue Buffalo Co.
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Richard McCullough
2.5XGMPR HR Lankas Labs Brandys Maximillion SH "Max"
Rick's Rooster Smasher of DRL "Eli"
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 13 Jul 2010 11:27 AM |
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Max
Looks good. I appreciate their response to you, particularly "We take every precaution to ensure that our fish meal is ethoxiquin free"
A lot of companies try to "get by" by saying that they don't add any ethoxyquin.
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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Maximillion
Basic Member
Posts:337
Clayton, North Carolina
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| 13 Jul 2010 12:47 PM |
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I was pleased with her answer.
Doc, Thanks for the "prod" so to say. I didn't have any intentions to ask until you wrote the statement. Glad I did ask them. |
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Richard McCullough
2.5XGMPR HR Lankas Labs Brandys Maximillion SH "Max"
Rick's Rooster Smasher of DRL "Eli"
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FMNugent
New Member
Posts:8
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| 15 Jul 2010 03:38 PM |
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Doc, what do you think of the Nutro Natural Choice Adult Lamb & Rice? |
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 16 Jul 2010 05:52 AM |
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FMN
At first glance, it looks pretty good.
The first ingredient in this dog food is lamb meal. Because it is considered a meat concentrate, lamb meal contains almost 300% more protein than fresh lamb itself.
But on closer inspection, it doesn't look so good. One problem is "ingredient splitting".
The second, third & fourth items are all rice ingredients… ground rice, rice flour, rice bran and whole brown rice. Though they’re a mixture of both high and low quality cereal grains, there’s a bigger issue to consider here…
If you were to combine all four ingredients, the rice would (rightfully) occupy a higher position on the list… probably nudging out the lamb meal to become the largest ingredient in the food.
This would significantly alter the estimated meat content of the finished product… something to keep in mind.
This Nutro product also contains menadione… a controversial form of vitamin K linked to liver toxicity, allergies and the abnormal break-down of red blood cells.
The eighth item is poultry fat. Poultry fat is a generic by-product of “rendering”… the same high-temperature process used to make meat meals. There’s no mention of a specific source animal here. Generic poultry fat like this is an inexpensive ingredient usually found in dog foods of lower quality.
All in all, I'd call it a mediocre food. |
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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stkpointers
Basic Member
Posts:156
La Center, WA
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| 16 Jul 2010 07:54 PM |
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For what it's worth, I just recently switched the kennel over to Blue Buffalo after feeding first Pro Plan, then Solid Gold, then Costco Super Premium. Our last Shorthair started severe itching, hair loss, terrible red skin and lesions while on Costco. The PL's were ok but just started to seem "out of sorts". After a trip to the vet and thorough blood tests which didn't come up with anything, I decided to go with Blue Buff Salmon and Potato for the GSP, their puppy food for Quiver and the Longevity food for the rest of them. The results have been amazing. Beautiful clear skin, shiny coats, increased energy and attitudes, it's like I've got new dogs. I won't deny it's expensive. But they have a program for trainers where you can get discount coupons and if you go on their website and do the comparison, they mail $5.00 coupons. The more email addresses you have, the more coupons you get! (Hint) I'm sold! |
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4x GMPR STK's Tub Full Of Mallards MH
CPR Double D Hot Tub Hannah
STK's Super Quiver SHR
Stephen and Julie Moore (HMMM)
Shade Tree Kennels LLC |
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sproulman
New Member
Posts:52
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| 16 Jul 2010 08:52 PM |
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i used to feed toby CANIDAE LAMB/RICE.then i went to CANIDAE ALL LIFE STAGES.this has 4 kinds of meat instead of one.
i crossed my fingers that toby would not start itching.HE DID NOT .he really likes it .more than any food so far.i add a sardine per day too,250 mg of ester c and 1 cosaquin capsule for hips daily.
his coat is very shiny .so far this is best food i have used . |
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 18 Jul 2010 05:59 PM |
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As I said before, "Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition."
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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Porknbeans
New Member
Posts:64
Madison, Wisconsin
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| 20 Jul 2010 04:56 AM |
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I feed my dog EVO - Turkey and Chicken with great results.
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Porknbeans
Grand High Pooba of the Fraternal Order of Procrastinators |
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 20 Jul 2010 07:37 AM |
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Posted By Porknbeans on 20 Jul 2010 04:56 AM
I feed my dog EVO - Turkey and Chicken with great results.
Excellent food.
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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