sproulman
New Member
Posts:52
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| 01 Jul 2010 07:59 PM |
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here is list of top 10.
CANIDAE
APD SELECT CHOICE
BLUE BUFFALO CO.
FROMM FAMILY
HALO,PURELY FOR PETS
HOLISTIC BLEND
NATURA
NEWMANS OWN ORGANICS
WELLNESS
ADDENDUM
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 01 Jul 2010 08:33 PM |
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According to who ?
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 01 Jul 2010 08:38 PM |
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As an example : I just picked (random) one of the foods listed
"Newman's Own Organics"
The first ingredient in this dog food lists chicken.
Raw chicken contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost… reducing meat content to just 20% of its original weight.
So, to reflect its lighter weight, this item should probably occupy a much lower position on the list.
Which brings us to chicken meal… the second and (more likely) the dominant meat ingredient in this dog food.
Chicken meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than even fresh chicken.
The next eight items include organic grains and vegetables…
Oats
Barley
Peas
Soybean meal
Sorghum
Brown rice
Millet
Rice
Soybean meal is (technically speaking) a by-product. It’s what remains of soybeans after all the oil has been removed.
Dogs do not utilize soybean protein well at all. It's a crap ingredient that makes the protein look higher than it actually is.
Soybean meal contains 48% protein… inferior plant-based protein. So, it’s most likely used here to raise the protein content of this product.
The next ingredient is chicken fat. Chicken fat is obtained from rendering chicken… a process similar to making soup in which the fat itself is skimmed from the surface of the liquid.
Chicken fat is high in linoleic acid… an omega-6 fatty acid essential for life, but pro-inflamatory. Though it doesn’t sound very appetizing, chicken fat is a quality addition, but needs to be balanced with an appropriate amount of Omega-3.
From here, the list goes on to include other ingredients.
But to be realistic, items located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to have much of an effect on the overall quality of this product.
The manufacturer appears to have added back some of the “good” bacteria lost during the cooking process. These special probiotics are used to enhance a dog’s digestive and immune functions.
This dog food also contains chelated minerals… minerals that have been chemically attached to amino acids. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are generally found in better dog foods.
Unfortunately, this Newman’s Own Dog Food product also contains a controversial form of vitamin K linked to liver toxicity, allergies and the abnormal break-down of red blood cells.
Fair protein. Low fat. And elevated carbohydrates (when compared to a typical dry dog food).
Featuring a brand average of 25%, protein percentages range from a low of 23% for the Adult to a high of 27% for the Advanced formula.
A respectable nutrient profile… but not extraordinary.
When you factor in the protein contributed by the soybean meal, the estimated amount of meat present appears to be modest.
Bottom line?
Newman’s Own is primarily an organic grain-based kibble utilizing only a fair amount of chicken meal as its main source of animal protein.
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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Paco
Advanced Member
Posts:839
On a trout stream in NW, MI.
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| 02 Jul 2010 11:35 AM |
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That looks like the list from the Whole Dog Journal
Most could not afford those foods, and I question that they are any better, especially for an athlete (dog).
But I don't know..... |
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rickreading
New Member
Posts:20
St. Francis, WI
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| 02 Jul 2010 12:29 PM |
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Where do the so called "premium" dog foods fit into this equation, such as, Purina Pro Plan and Eukanuba? I've read a couple articles which haven't rated them all that highly, yet Pro Plan is the food recommended by my vet, so I'm confused. |
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| Rick Reading;
Founding Member SWUBHA |
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keskam
Veteran Member
Posts:1544
Pierce, Colorado
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| 02 Jul 2010 01:11 PM |
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Posted By rickreading on 02 Jul 2010 12:29 PM
Where do the so called "premium" dog foods fit into this equation, such as, Purina Pro Plan and Eukanuba? I've read a couple articles which haven't rated them all that highly, yet Pro Plan is the food recommended by my vet, so I'm confused.
It all depends how much money you put out there so people indorse your product.... Pro Plan does support hunt tests and gun dogs as do Arkat and a few others, I kinda support those that are involved with what we do. |
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bsmiley
Advanced Member
Posts:988
Fishers Indiana
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| 02 Jul 2010 02:07 PM |
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Dog food stuff always confuses me. Analyzing it, to me, is like trying to buy a pick-up based on what brand brake rotors, wiring, and other minor parts are used. All good things to consider but too much for me to get a handle on.
I have used ProPlan Sensitive skin and stomach which has a fish based protien source with rice. It is like a 24/18 blend. Dogs seem to do great on it and don't have the bad breath and gas that often accompanies the 30/20 chicken based foods that use other grains.
I am sure there are better foods out there but the dogs look good, smell better, seem to feel good, and I can get it readily without ordering it or driving accross town to a special store. |
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Cruz, 4XGMPR HRCH MH ("CAT 6")
Yeager, MPR HR (Master Pointing Lap Dog)
Cody, 2XGMPR, MH (BAMF,RIP, Friend)
Runnin',Gunnin' & Pickin' Up the Chickens!
www.browngundogs.com
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Maximillion
Basic Member
Posts:337
Clayton, North Carolina
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| 02 Jul 2010 04:53 PM |
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I use Blue Buffalo Salmon and Potato. It hasn't slowed Max down any, and he actually has gained weight on also. |
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Richard McCullough
2.5XGMPR HR Lankas Labs Brandys Maximillion SH "Max"
Rick's Rooster Smasher of DRL "Eli"
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PtLabRobert
Basic Member
Posts:301
Olathe, KS
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| 03 Jul 2010 08:31 PM |
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I am feeding Val the Eagle Pack-Large breed adult and she seems to be doing well on it...23/18 I believe....not as cheap as Eukanuba but pretty close... |
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| 1.5xGMPR HR Chapman's Vision Quest Valerie SH "Val" |
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sproulman
New Member
Posts:52
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| 03 Jul 2010 09:18 PM |
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Posted By rickreading on 02 Jul 2010 12:29 PM
Where do the so called "premium" dog foods fit into this equation, such as, Purina Pro Plan and Eukanuba? I've read a couple articles which haven't rated them all that highly, yet Pro Plan is the food recommended by my vet, so I'm confused.
both of those are bad dog foods.vets make money off the dog foods they push.almost all vet foods are full of grains and some have chicken by -products etc not MEAL. |
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sproulman
New Member
Posts:52
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| 03 Jul 2010 09:23 PM |
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Posted By Doc_E on 01 Jul 2010 08:33 PM
According to who ?
. take a look if you would at CANIDAE ALL LIFE STAGES and see what you think, this food has been no.1 for years and is very fair on price. i pay 34 for a 40 pd bag.after 10 bags you get 1 free. this expert does not like dog foods at all but he felt these were only ones he would use after researching .his dogs go to 22 yrs old. |
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sproulman
New Member
Posts:52
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| 03 Jul 2010 09:26 PM |
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Posted By bsmiley on 02 Jul 2010 02:07 PM
Dog food stuff always confuses me. Analyzing it, to me, is like trying to buy a pick-up based on what brand brake rotors, wiring, and other minor parts are used. All good things to consider but too much for me to get a handle on.
I have used ProPlan Sensitive skin and stomach which has a fish based protien source with rice. It is like a 24/18 blend. Dogs seem to do great on it and don't have the bad breath and gas that often accompanies the 30/20 chicken based foods that use other grains.
I am sure there are better foods out there but the dogs look good, smell better, seem to feel good, and I can get it readily without ordering it or driving accross town to a special store. way i got CANIDAE ALL LIFE STAGES in our area was i went to FEED STORE and showed him the rating and asked if he could get it in .he made call and got it and sells a lot of it after he showed the ratings etc. |
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 04 Jul 2010 08:21 AM |
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Canidae All Life Stages : Overall it looks like a good food. It's good to see that they use meat meals and not "fresh". Meat meals contain (by weight) 300% more protein than "fresh". The next three are all rice ingredients… brown rice, white rice and rice bran. Though they are a mixture of both high and low quality cereal grains, there’s a bigger issue to consider here… The questionable practice of ingredient splitting.
You see, if you were to combine all three ingredients, the rice would (rightfully) occupy a higher position on the list… probably nudging out one (or more) of the prior meat items. And this would significantly alter the estimated meat content of the finished product… something to keep in mind. The ingredient splitting suggests to me that Canidae Dog Food to be only an average dry product.
It does not have enough Omega-3 in relation to Omega-6.
They do not say what species of "ocean fish" they use. Might be good, might not.
Protein and Fat seem a bit too low for a hard working dog or a dog that is kennelled outdoors in Winter.
Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition.
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 04 Jul 2010 08:49 AM |
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Posted By Maximillion on 02 Jul 2010 04:53 PM
I use Blue Buffalo Salmon and Potato. It hasn't slowed Max down any, and he actually has gained weight on also.
All in all, this food looks good.
However I would have some comments and questions about it :
Ingredients : Deboned Salmon, Peas, Whole Potatoes, Whole Ground Brown Rice, Salmon Meal(natural source of Omega 3 Fatty Acid), Flaxseed.. . . . . . .
The first ingredient is fresh de-boned Salmon. Fresh Salmon is 80% water and once it's dried (via cooking) it would be listed much farther down in the ingredient list. Maybe lower than the peas, spuds and brown rice.
Is the Salmon farm raised or wild caught? How is it preserved before it gets to the Blue Buffalo factory? (same questions about the Salmon Meal). Many fish products are preserved with ethoxyquin BEFORE they get to the factory -- and thus, ethoxyquin does not have to be listed on the label.
It seems that they use whole Flaxseed -- totally undigestable unless it's Flaxseed meal. If they are using whole flaxseed, it really shouldn't be part of the Omega-3 analysis.
For a hard working dog, the 22% Protein and 14% Fat seem to be too low.
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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rugerred
New Member
Posts:85
Wisconsin
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| 04 Jul 2010 05:28 PM |
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doc what do you think of LiveSmart™ Chicken and Brown Rice Puppy Formula
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 04 Jul 2010 06:53 PM |
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ruger
Again, other than having (fresh) Chicken as the first ingredient, it looks extremely good.
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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Maximillion
Basic Member
Posts:337
Clayton, North Carolina
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| 05 Jul 2010 01:29 AM |
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Doc it was a long process to get where we are right now with Max 2.5 years. This food fixed his B-12 issue and his digestion problem. He now is gaining weight and keeping it on. let alone his energy level has'nt decreased any.
I understand what you are saying, but at this point I am not going to change. |
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Richard McCullough
2.5XGMPR HR Lankas Labs Brandys Maximillion SH "Max"
Rick's Rooster Smasher of DRL "Eli"
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Doc_E
Veteran Member
Posts:1880
N.E. WA state
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| 05 Jul 2010 08:42 AM |
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Posted By Maximillion on 05 Jul 2010 01:29 AM
Doc it was a long process to get where we are right now with Max 2.5 years. This food fixed his B-12 issue and his digestion problem. He now is gaining weight and keeping it on. let alone his energy level has'nt decreased any.
I understand what you are saying, but at this point I am not going to change. I certainly wasn't suggesting that you change, but I would email the company and ask them the questions that I posed to you above.
Different dogs do better or worse on different foods -- and when you find one that works well for you, stick with it.. |
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Doc E and Nami E
UH HR MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey
HR Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months) |
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Maximillion
Basic Member
Posts:337
Clayton, North Carolina
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| 05 Jul 2010 02:04 PM |
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Posted By Doc_E on 05 Jul 2010 08:42 AM
I certainly wasn't suggesting that you change, but I would email the company and ask them the questions that I posed to you above.
Different dogs do better or worse on different foods -- and when you find one that works well for you, stick with it.
Doc, I know you were not, I did email them Today and asked. Now to wait and see what is said
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Richard McCullough
2.5XGMPR HR Lankas Labs Brandys Maximillion SH "Max"
Rick's Rooster Smasher of DRL "Eli"
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ASTOVER
New Member
Posts:58
Nebraska
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| 05 Jul 2010 04:32 PM |
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Great discussion guys, going along the lines that no one product is perfect for every dog. What is your opinion (anyone) on the Loyall product line from Nutrena? http://www.loyallpetfood.com/loyall.../index.jsp |
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