I have a question for those who seem to have a good handle on PL pedigree research.

Cruz is a 5th generation (direct decent) GMPR (Hershey-Cajun-Doc-Cody-Cruz).

Not that it really means anything, I am just curious if this is a new thing or more common than I know.

Bruce

I don't know if it is common or not, but that's an impressive list of PLs.

Zeke

Bruce were can a person look at his pedigree?

Bruce, that's real nice pedigree.

May not be the answer but what about the old IPLA. Not sure about their titles but I have seen a few pedigrees with the Ipla noted. Could be a way of varifying point even before there were GMPR titles.

Kevin, I don't have his pedigree out anywhere and have not done one for him with APLA titles. His pop was my Cody dog (the top side line shown above), mom was Mary Anny Byerly's Shug (BJ/BF Abbey) so there are double doses of Twist, Cajun, and Rascal throughout the pedigree in the 3rd and 4th generations. I could scan the AKC pedigree but I don't think it would be "readable" if I posted it here.

Scott it would be interesting to see the IPLA titles on some of the dogs. I am guessing with a young dog now, you would be back to 5th or 6th generation on some of those IPLA dogs though.

Bruce,
I spend more time than I will admit.....at least to my wife, looking at pedigrees, especially non APLA titled dogs that are producing nice pointing labs. I think you mostly see third generation and generally they are weighted on one side and not both. Rid is a good example of what you see in a third Gen pointing lab for instance with sitre/dam GMPRS and grand sire/dam on the bottom GMPRs, but FT dogs on the top side.....however, FC AFC Calumets Supersonic has obviously thrown strong pointing lines with various offspring of his producing pointing labs as has FC AFC Way Da GO Rocky as they both produced GMPRS.....my last PL was also out of that dog, had a strong point and was untitled.....sory didnt know of the APLA at the time.

This organization isnt that old, so I think itll take some time to have 5 gen pedigrees with GMPRs all the way through, but I hope that is where we are going. That the breeders associated with the APLA will produce multiple strong pointing lines that can be outcrossed and with some nice FC AFC dogs sprinkled back in to ensure that we have enough varying bloodlines and solid lab characteristics in addition to the pointing and everyone that wants a PL has as good of a possiblity as nature will provide that theyll get one.

I agree. When I titled Cody, he was the only 4th gen GMPR that anyone knew of, so I was curious if anyone knew of other 5th gen.'s since Cruz is there now.

Again, I consider this in the "interesting fact" category, not a statement on pedigree since it is only one "branch" of the pedigree tree and in the overall genetic pool has limited effect. He has just as much influence from a bunch of untitled Nebraska guide dogs from his paternal grandmother. I think it is interesting for us as an organization if we are reaching that milestone.

Ed, as you mention, there are many other dogs very influential that were not APLA titled. One of, maybe the most(?), successful "PL" litters we have seen came out of Rascal (AFC,no APLA title) and Bonkerjohn Kate (produced 3GMPR's, 2 also MH's and the other QAA - BJ, Smoke, and Tilly). Granted, I understand mom (Kate) was a very special dog in general, and had a few titles (GMPR, MH, QAA). Kate's sire was Twist, another non APLA titled AFC.

Interesting stuff, but the better breeders I know don't really look back beyond (primarily) the traits of the parents with some lesser consideration of the grandparents if known. I would tend to agree with that approach but would never consider myself a breeder or qualified to do so.

Again - just found the direct line thing "interesting" and wondered how common it was.

Bruce