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The Mondio Ring
Last Post 03 Feb 2010 06:39 PM by Zeke. 4 Replies.
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02 Feb 2010 03:39 PM  
The Mondio Ring

Over the last couple of years, I've been on a knowledge quest, researching how different fields (agility, service dogs, etc.) train dogs. It is really interesting that there are a lot of similarities in what different fields are trying to accomplish, yet they go about them in very different ways.

I've been really impressed with one field in particular, the biting and protection sports. This field is all about producing police, military, and personal protection "attack dogs." One reason I like the sport is because their dogs are very similar to our dogs (intelligent and very high prey drive).

About two months ago, I attended a Michael Ellis seminar for competition Schutzund, Mondio Ring, and French Ring dogs (competition biting and protection dogs). Michael Ellis is the premier trainer and coach for Mondio Ring dogs in the world. For the last year, I've been following Michael's training philosophy and methods, and I jumped at the chance to attend one of his seminars. It was an eye-opening experience, one that that has changed my dog training philosophy.

First, I need to comment on the dogs that I saw competing. Most of them were Belgian Malinois, an incredible breed with intense drive, intelligence, and athleticism. Michael first demonstrated his dog, Pi, who demonstrated obedience work 50 yards away from his handler, with precision that I have never seen before. The obedience was a model of conditioned response in high drive, and the dog loved doing obedience. Their healing work was unbelievable. Then, with only 6 feet of running distance, Pi jumped over an 8 foot wall (sort of climbed) like it was nothing. When they added more height to the wall (9 foot), Michael Ellis slapped his leg twice and the dog went into a frenzy of high drive (like a drive booster), then Pi jumped the 9 foot wall, with ease. Pi ended with a long jump, in which he cleared about 22 feet.

Then they went to retrieving, which was also impressive. They retrieved a guitar, a wreath, and a motorcycle helmet, all with excellent mouth habits (no chomping). They even had a drill that resembled the blind retrieve, called the send away. Those dogs exploded off the line, with many of them "shaking and quivering" to do the exercise.

He then went on to the biting work, which just scared the shit out of me. Even though I knew they were well-trained and obedient, those dogs bit with a vengeance, yet also with precision. The most impressive exercise was the object guard, in which the handler left the room, and the dog had to protect an object from a number of intruders. When the intruder would enter the 10 foot radius of the object, the dog would leave the object and attack the intruder, I mean attack! If the intruder retreated past the 10 foot radius, then the dog would release and go back to guarding the object. All of this with the handler out of the room.

During the seminar I learned a great deal about their training philosophy and techniques, observing it action. I asked a ton of questions. About 10 years ago, the field started to undergo a dramatic change. The traditional way of training "attack dogs" was to build up their drive and then to primarily rely upon corrections to control their drive, with the bite as the reward. In many ways, this training philosophy technique is very similar to our retriever training methods. In short, we build up the drive in our dogs, and then rely upon corrections to control them, with the retrieve being the reward.

Michael’s new training system is very different, and many competition trainers are now following his lead. The end goal and behaviors are still the same, a conditioned response. Yet, they go about getting the conditioned response in a different way. The new system is based upon the instant feedback and communication given to the dog, with certain feedback cues being linked to either rewards or corrections. During complex exercises, they use instant feedback to let the dog know instantly whether or not it did it right or wrong, or precise what parts of a complex behavior they are doing right or wrong.

The system is also more reward-based, with the reward being linked to specific instant feedback cues. In the beginning, they use food as the reward. But once they build up their prey drive, they use retrieving objects (balls, toys, etc.) and tugging as the primary rewards. Over time, the rewards are phased out, but never completely out of training. For example, one of their events is 15 to 20 minutes long, so the dogs are conditioned to perform for a long period of time before being rewarded.

While the new system is primarily reward-based, it is important to note that they also use corrections, especially once the dog is proficient a certain task. However, I would also say that they are much more teaching and learning focused, waiting longer before they bring in corrections. Once the dog is highly proficient at the skill, then they bring in corrections, mainly for lack of effort or focus and NOT for making a mistake. Instant feedback cues are also linked to different levels of corrections. Important to note, they try to get the behaviors with rewards first, then go to corrections as a last resort.

What I liked about the system most is the instant communication between the handler and the dog. Experiments in dog learning studies suggest that communication (i.e., right or wrong feedback) has the best effect when it happens within 1 second of the behavior occurring, and with this system, they are able to accomplish that, even with very long and complex behaviors, which are done far from the handler.

Even though these dogs "were crazy" and in "high drive," they did not need that many corrections. The dogs seem to control themselves because they wanted the reward, not because they are afraid of the correction. It’s like they give the responsibility to the dog to perform and for the outcomes, and the dogs perform magnificently because they want the reward. This goes on in our retriever training, but not to the level that I witnessed.

Anyhow, it was really cool to learn from another dog training field, especially because their sport and ours have many similarities. I think it is possible to pull a lot from this sport and bring it over to our world.

Zeke
MPR Zeke the Wonder Dog HRCH
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02 Feb 2010 10:04 PM  
Mike,
My Sister got into Schutzund about the time I got Meg. Her loving son brought/sent home a German Shepard pup from a breeding at the Marine base he was training at. My Sister joined a Schutzund Club in Los Alamos, NM to learn to train this dog and got hooked on Schutzund. She trained this dog well past the abilities that many club members thought was possible. Michael conducts 2 to 3 day seminars there every quarter and he was impressed with her enough to arrange for her to get a pup from a breeding that he put together. She trained Paoli, a Belgian Malinois to a high level, but she has a tendancy to flinch on the bite work if she is challanged. Last year Michael sold her a male Belgian Malinois that should be able to take her to a new level. She will drive 10 hours each way to go to one of his seminars and says she will always be involved in this training and testing. She is crazy, she has a GSP, German Shepard and 2 of Michaels Belgian Malinois. She makes the money I spend on my dogs look like pocket change!!!!
One of these years I am going to go to a test, or seminar with my Sister.
Small world, cool beans that you got to experience it.
Pat
Lord may I be half the man that my dogs think that I am!
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On a trout stream in NW,MI.

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03 Feb 2010 06:49 AM  
Nice post Mike,
Can't wait to chat about it more....
I do agree that there is a lot we can glean from others,as a good example learning from the pointer trainers,and letting the dog develop there predator side up front,then the retriever control work,etc.
Post up some web-sites if you can?
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03 Feb 2010 08:06 AM  
My Sister owns Pi's sister and one of his Son's. Here is a link to a video of Anzo, his son learning about bite work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP38kkEqOHI

Pat
Lord may I be half the man that my dogs think that I am!
ZekeUser is Offline
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03 Feb 2010 06:39 PM  
Pat,

What a small world it is, that is so cool that your sister has Pi sister and son. Those dogs were amazing. Michael is a great trainer, and just a cool guys, I really enjoyed his philosophy and common sense methods. It was quite an experience. Cool video!

Paco,

Can't wait to give you more details about the seminar, hopefully over a few cold ones. I took 10 pages of single spaced notes on the first night of the seminar.

zeke
MPR Zeke the Wonder Dog HRCH
www.freewebs.com/zekethewonderdog
PR Director of the Michigan Mafia
MM Run-N-Gun Asssociation
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