Just curious as to why the difference in order of series at APLA hunt tests.   To my recolection, every CPR but one that I have seen has started with upland, every APR/MPR has started with retrieving.

Why the difference, and why the definate preference for the different order for both stakes.   As a nearly newbie, it would make sense that if bird usage and time were why to run upland last in MPR it would be the same for CPR.    I would think that occasionally with a smaller MPR field that it could be switched up to take advantage of TYPICALLY better scenting conditions in the AM as opposed to waiting until the warmest part of the day.  Like I said it just seems that whatever advantages there are for one stake to do it that way woul dbe true for both.......

I think it is because, for CPR, the upland and land marks are the same series, and because since water takes a while, only dogs who passed the upland/land will run that test.

I think for APR/MPR it is opposite-because there are three series, dogs who don't pass land or water marks/blinds won't run upland, because it is the most time consuming. In my experience, land has run before water, and I assume that's because land is faster.

I think it is basically a time/efficiency thing for running the test.

Unless things have changed recently, it is the call of the test managers regarding order of the series. In general, the Certified field runs the upland first because that is where the new folks show up and they want to run their dogs on upland birds, not fail because of some decoys in the water or just poor water performance and never get a chance to see their PL do its thing.

In the upper stakes, it is time and resource management to run the quicker, less bird intensive stakes first before running the upland field @ 20 minutes per dog. Sometimes you'll see it differently but usually the volunteer judges have only so much time and need to get home before the work week begins and so things need to run as efficiently as possible.

Ok I am goin gto hijac my own thread and ask a JUDGING question.

How do you judge the marking in the upland(as hooligan pointed out). I would think that judging a dog's MARKING ability would be difficult when the dog is not required to be steady. The same I suppose would be true I suppose for APR, though you would also have a series to look at as well, and the dog should handle some. But I would assume that a wide leeway would have to be given at times.

Suppose a dog points a bird that is near a plum thicket, bird takes flight towards said thicket, dog disappears into said thicket, as bird changes course and then is shot. Dog comes out the other side and there is no bird in the area where he last saw the bird flying.... Handler can't move, dog doesn't handle yet. Is the team S.O.L.? That would be a worst case scenerio, but one reason to have a steady dog is that dogs that are steady mark better.

Fritz,

Ditto Kevin - also, good filed planning should attempt to avoid the obstacles that you reference within the bounds of a CP, or APR and MPR for that matter. The fileld should be pretty clear so you can see and judge the dog, and the dog can see the mark. Often there is heavier cover on the edges of a CP field but if the bird falls outside the boundaries of the test field then the rules dictate a simulated retrieve is available.

The dog must retrieve all cleanly killed game and all birds from simulated retrieves that it should see fall within the boundaries of the Upland Field.

AH, I was a little confused on the rule for CP, I thought they had to retrieve all cleanly killed, the bold is a pretty big phrase for this scenerio.