Now i am going to insert my two cents - unless you read Pt. Lab Roberts original post you don't have all the info. Or maybe you did and didn't process all the info that he gave us. In the post Robert stated that he had completed some training, probably basic obedience stuff with some land retrieves afterwards. Then after that they moved to the water portion, where his son threw the bumper in the wrong direction causing what he said was a 200 yard rertrieve. Which to me seems a little far fetched unless he was positioned across the pond from him and Val. It was on the second retrieve that she experienced difficulty. Now is where you need to take note-

" IT WAS 90 PLUS DEGREES".

Figure it out- what would have happened to every other dog in the free world if they had just done all this work in that heat. Even a well conditioned dog has limitations when you are dealing with extreme heat.

Jeff has every right in my opinion to be TORQUED to the max. It took Rick Hastings over a decade to build BlackJack into one of the premier kennels in the U.S.  Through alot of hard work and careful planning of prospective Breeding pairings, they created a line of dogs that are second to none. Now that Jeff has invested a great deal of time and money into acquiring BlackJack Kennels, he has been done a great injustice. If you feel it was done in innocence, then that is your opinion. But it is no different than someone accusing you of being a child molester - once accusations or rumors are started someone has to prove their innocence, and even if they do people will still look at them differently.

I saw this pup at the seminar, and like all Tubs pups she has a pretty big motor. I personally own 10 pointing labs, 5 of which are from BlackJack Kennels.

I have hunted along side Tubs, Tori, Kate, Kodi, Deuce, Dusty, Charlie and alot of their offspring, and I can promise you that Rick Hastings didn't just wake up one morning and find a couple of dogs locked together in the yard and decide to start a Kennel.  I have bought dogs from Jeff and Rick and they are the same quality of dogs. How about you have a dog that has so much drive bred into it that it has no idea when to quit. Roberrt has what looks to be a very promising young female, and should be more concerned about losing her to heat stroke than ruining her with inadequate training abilities. Retraction or deleting a post can't remove the damage, but i guess thats just my opinion right.

The bottom line is that if you work your dog in 90 degree heat, something is bound to happen. Therefore most pros are out waiting for it to get light enough to train in the hot months to beat the heat, or they go to michigan or minnesota. Or you could be intelligent like Jon and Mike at K&L and have an Air Conditioned training facility.

I appreciate the support, but Robert didn't meant any harm. I talked to him by phone tonight. He just has a good dog and is excited about it and worried. I just got a little fired up that the thread took off in the direction that it did.

Jeff

Posted By sonicman on 30 Jun 2009 08:44 PM
I appreciate the support, but Robert didn't meant any harm. I talked to him by phone tonight. He just has a good dog and is excited about it and worried. I just got a little fired up that the thread took off in the direction that it did.

Jeff

Good answer Jeff. I hope you truly feel this way. I think Robert really loves his pup and was just looking for help and not placing blame. I have heard good things about your dogs and I am glad you can admit you may have jumped the gun. From Robert's post ( since he has been on here) he appears to be in the same boat as me. Not very familiar with the hunting ,training and testing of a dog but this site is a great source of information. The people on here have seen everything and I think Robert just went where he thought he could get quality responsses.

Until UMN says unequivocally that the science supports a conclusion that carriers never display EIC symptoms, I'll take their hedged statement in the results of testing report to mean they can not honestly say that.

Everyone else can take it whatever way they want.

Ya, I know, the lawyers made them do it!

Jere

Until UMN says unequivocally that the science supports a conclusion that carriers never display EIC symptoms, I'll take their hedged statement in the results of testing report to mean they can not honestly say that.

Everyone else can take it whatever way they want.

Ya, I know, the lawyers made them do it!

Jere

The dog could have Exersize Induced Hyperthermia (EIH) Were the dogs temp during work reaches 107 to 108, Dont know alot about it but sounds like a big name for overheating to me...

There is a lesson to be learned here and it ain't about EIC. Dogs overheat in water sometimes faster than they do on land. When a dog is swimming hard he isn't able to cool himself efficiently by panting and he doesn't have the evaporative cooling taking place on his skin like he does when he is on land. So just because you are swimming your dog doesn't mean you are cooling him off. Here in mid Mo right now our water temps are in the high 80s low 90s already this summer. So be careful, fresh cool drinks and limited work are the ticket. 70 plus dogs died on opening weekend in South Dakota 2 years ago due to heat related issues. You owe it to your dog to know the warning signs and help him out before it takes your best friend. If I remember correctly there is a good thread on this website about working dogs in hot weather.

Dazed:

THAT is exactly the information that I was looking for! Thank you so very much. It makes much sense, but it never occurred to me. I will be much more careful with Val and work her in the early mornings and evenings. I will also train my bird-boy to throw more accurately! LOL!

Being an RN and having worked in pharmaceuticals for the last 17 years I do have some experience with medical research and the fact that there is not a way EVER to say 100% that "this or that" WILL work...only that in a certain % of folks it does. I read the information available and I have to say that the test and the trails they have run to develop it are sufficient for me. Unless there is a study that can argue/prove different, I will trust the test developed, always knowing there may be exceptions.

Thanks for all the feedback..from everyone...I may not agree or what I type may be taken differently than I meant, none the less, I will always respect everyone's right to express their thoughts and feelings. That is what this forum and America is all about!

HAPPY Independence Day to all!!!